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minniev
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"Your Kind Is Not Welcome Here"

Post by minniev » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:36 pm

I'm gonna share this for any discussion or just for looking, because it is a risky topic - how living creatures segregate themselves. We humans are the worst.

I stumbled into this social commentary while returning from a day at the newly opened Civil Rights Museum in our capital city. It is an awe-inspiring and heart-wrenching place, a top of the line museum, and if you ever find yourself in Jackson, it is a must-see. It's of Smithsonian quality.

Then, on the way home, I passed this little island that looked much like some of the exhibits I'd just seen, whose titles you can imagine. The pelicans were ousting the cormorants and ducks from the favored log. The cormorants had accepted a less favored log and congregated together. The ducks just fled, being so much smaller than either of the other groups. The last one was being dispatched with a swift kick while I shot this.
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LindaShorey
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Post by LindaShorey » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 pm

How fascinating you came upon the sight right after your museum visit. I wonder if you'd have made the connection to human segregation if you hadn't just been to the exhibit? I sometimes anthropomorphize animal behavior, often just for fun. This is a very interesting photo that I'm glad you posted, Minnie!

Re the American White Pelicans: two years in a row I watched a small group play king of the hill with a favored rock in the river. It went on and on for several minutes, with seemingly no clear winner, though it was more likely I tired of the activity before they did :)
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Post by PietFrancke » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 pm

I was kinda scared to look, but I peeked in anyway.

Commentary - I've spent most of my life around dogs. They most certainly establish a pecking order and they are territorial in nature.

In most social situations, there is always the "odd duck left out" (an interesting phrase for sure).

Chess players hang out with other chess players (or no one). The cheerleaders are more likely to hang out with the athletes than with the chess players. All very normal, very natural. It is the kind of thing that takes "goodness" and humanity to overcome (though sometimes animals can surprise us).

What is it that draws out kindness? or meanness? When do we embrace, when do we reject? What makes us bullies? What makes us fair? What makes us fear?

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Post by uuglypher » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 am

minniev wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:36 pm
I'm gonna share this for any discussion or just for looking, because it is a risky topic - how living creatures segregate themselves. We humans are the worst.

I stumbled into this social commentary while returning from a day at the newly opened Civil Rights Museum in our capital city. It is an awe-inspiring and heart-wrenching place, a top of the line museum, and if you ever find yourself in Jackson, it is a must-see. It's of Smithsonian quality.

Then, on the way home, I passed this little island that looked much like some of the exhibits I'd just seen, whose titles you can imagine. The pelicans were ousting the cormorants and ducks from the favored log. The cormorants had accepted a less favored log and congregated together. The ducks just fled, being so much smaller than either of the other groups. The last one was being dispatched with a swift kick while I shot this.
...and considering the top and profoundly shameful news of this day...your image...and message...are all the more apropos.
Good eye...profound message !

Thanks for posting

Dave

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Post by PietFrancke » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:05 am

uuglypher wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 am
minniev wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:36 pm
I'm gonna share this for any discussion or just for looking, because it is a risky topic - how living creatures segregate themselves. We humans are the worst.

I stumbled into this social commentary while returning from a day at the newly opened Civil Rights Museum in our capital city. It is an awe-inspiring and heart-wrenching place, a top of the line museum, and if you ever find yourself in Jackson, it is a must-see. It's of Smithsonian quality.

Then, on the way home, I passed this little island that looked much like some of the exhibits I'd just seen, whose titles you can imagine. The pelicans were ousting the cormorants and ducks from the favored log. The cormorants had accepted a less favored log and congregated together. The ducks just fled, being so much smaller than either of the other groups. The last one was being dispatched with a swift kick while I shot this.
...and considering the top and profoundly shameful news of this day...your image...and message...are all the more apropos.
Good eye...profound message !

Thanks for posting

Dave
Dave, I must live under a rock, I had not been following the news at all - so I looked, just now, and was very saddened - but not surprised when I read what's been going on. I feel that serious damage is being done that will take years and years, if ever to undo. It truly makes me sick, tense, it is so difficult to build, yet very easy to tear down.

Another "kind" often not welcome are the weak or sick. While reading the news I Also stumbled onto a story about a woman in being discharged from a hospital in her hospital gown into the street at night with the temperature around freezing. We have become long on greed and short on mercy.

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:52 am

LindaShorey wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 pm
How fascinating you came upon the sight right after your museum visit. I wonder if you'd have made the connection to human segregation if you hadn't just been to the exhibit? I sometimes anthropomorphize animal behavior, often just for fun. This is a very interesting photo that I'm glad you posted, Minnie!

Re the American White Pelicans: two years in a row I watched a small group play king of the hill with a favored rock in the river. It went on and on for several minutes, with seemingly no clear winner, though it was more likely I tired of the activity before they did :)
I am sure the museum made it easier, but all that stuff was so much a part of my own growing up, I’m equally sure I’d have thought of it anyway. I definitely imbue animals with human characteristics, and even trees. We share many characteristics, both good and not so good.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by Charles Haacker » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 am

First, Min, beautiful picture beautifully rendered! Then the food for thought.
PietFrancke wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 pm
[...] What is it that draws out kindness? or meanness? When do we embrace, when do we reject? What makes us bullies? What makes us fair? What makes us fear?
uuglypher wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 am
...and considering the top and profoundly shameful news of this day...your image...and message...are all the more apropos.
Good eye...profound message !

Thanks for posting

Dave
Heads up! Another way too long boring essay because he's bored and it's cold out. Read at own risk.

Birds of a feather flock together. An ancient proverb going back to at least the Greeks, and so utterly true as this photograph attests. Look at Linda's birds on wires: all the same bird. Look on a roofline: line of all same birds. They know who they are and they stick together. It seems to me to be a quite literally natural thing.

But they are birds! Lions hang with lions. Gnus hang with gnus.

Humans (despite what bigots have tried to sell for probably millenia) are of the same feather. "Yumans" as I like to kid around are just yumans. Every so-called "racial characteristic" is really just a biological taxon, morphological traits developed by evolution. Dark skin is a good adaptation against sunburn if you live where it's too hot to wear clothes. Light skin is a good adaptation for the prevention of rickets from vitamin D deficiency if you live where it's too cold to take off your clothes so you have to get all your sun from exposure to your face and hands. If a dark skinned person loves a light skinned person and they get it on their kids will be human with a blend of their parents' taxonomies. Duh?

My contention is that if they were not simply human they could not breed and reproduce.

So far as I know (and I ain't a biologist nor a ornithologist) if you cross a pelican with a cormorant you will get a pelicant (or is it a cormoran?). It will be a flightless bird with hairy feathers.

Serious though, so far as I know ya get nuthin'. Maybe you get eggs but they won't be a cross of the two birds. Not never. Not nohow. I don't think it can be done in a lab either; the DNA is just not compatible. In those rare cases where you can crossbreed things, like horses and donkeys, you get a mule all right, but mules are sterile; they cannot breed, nor can anything breed with them. There are interbred species that form new species but they are not common.

This is why, from a purely scientific viewpoint, I think racism is ridiculous. Yumans is yumans. Race shmace. If humans get it on you get little humans. Bigots are obsessing on superficials. Dumb. What the bigot is really expressing is tribalism.

I suspect that fear and loathing of "the other" is probably baked into our DNA. Like birds we prefer to "flock together." And what that is, is tribalism. We know that very generally, a tribe's name for itself translates roughly "US," and that tribe's names for other tribes translates roughly, "THEM." The great Sioux nation, hated and feared by all surrounding tribes for their ferocious aggression never called themselves "sioux." They are Lakota or Dakota or Hunkpapa, all of which mean roughly "us" or "our people," and could even suggest "the good guys." The term "Sioux" was applied to them by their hereditary enemies, the Chippewa. When French explorers asked the Chippewa, "Who are those guys?" the Chippewa replied in their language something to the effect, "Those guys are snakes!" Whatever the heck they said the French eventually garbled it around to Sioux, which is not actually a word at all in any native language but was meant to mean snake, and satan, and those-bums-over-there-that-we-hate-a-lot. The "name" Sioux is actually a made-up pejorative from another tribe that didn't like them. The point of all that yadayada (he has a point?) is that there is no discernible "racial" difference among (especially) Plains tribes (and the DNA evidence is even stronger), but they were still capable of what amounted to race hatred, and that goes back that 200,000 years I'm always yakkin' about. The Sioux and the Crow were bitter hereditary enemies, so bitter in fact that the Crow (also not their real name) threw in with the Great White Father to defeat the Sioux. Crow scouts led Custer to the Little Big Horn and died with him. When the tribes were all subdued the Great White Father in his infinite wisdom very often took Crow and Sioux (and other enemy tribes) and stuck them on the same reservations and then wondered why they couldn't all just get along (wal they's all injuns ain't they?).
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minniev
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Post by minniev » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:01 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 pm
I was kinda scared to look, but I peeked in anyway.

Commentary - I've spent most of my life around dogs. They most certainly establish a pecking order and they are territorial in nature.

In most social situations, there is always the "odd duck left out" (an interesting phrase for sure).

Chess players hang out with other chess players (or no one). The cheerleaders are more likely to hang out with the athletes than with the chess players. All very normal, very natural. It is the kind of thing that takes "goodness" and humanity to overcome (though sometimes animals can surprise us).

What is it that draws out kindness? or meanness? When do we embrace, when do we reject? What makes us bullies? What makes us fair? What makes us fear?
Glad you braved it! All creatures tend to seek out like creatures. And some creatures reject those unlike themselves in some way. Our last dog, who lived to the grand old age of 14, was racist, sexist, and prejudiced against dogs with disproportionately short legs like dachshunds and corgis.

Your questions are powerful and confounding, but whatever the answers are, the current times are pushing humans further away from fairness, kindness, acceptance. Fear of the “other” seems rampant.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:09 am

uuglypher wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 am

...and considering the top and profoundly shameful news of this day...your image...and message...are all the more apropos.
Good eye...profound message !

Thanks for posting

Dave
I had not seen today’s news before I posted this, but it is no surprise, only a continuation of the sad journey we’ve lately been on, which I think is a journey backwards into errors of the past.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:21 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:05 am

Dave, I must live under a rock, I had not been following the news at all - so I looked, just now, and was very saddened - but not surprised when I read what's been going on. I feel that serious damage is being done that will take years and years, if ever to undo. It truly makes me sick, tense, it is so difficult to build, yet very easy to tear down.

Another "kind" often not welcome are the weak or sick. While reading the news I Also stumbled onto a story about a woman in being discharged from a hospital in her hospital gown into the street at night with the temperature around freezing. We have become long on greed and short on mercy.
I share your worry Piet, about the damage that has been done so quickly to the our national psyche. And not just our nation either, though the warp speed at which the change has occurred is different here.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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