"Sometimes imagination is no more than randomness applied." —Piet Francke

― Artistic Expression CritiqueBenedikt

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PietFrancke
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Re: Benedikt

Post by PietFrancke » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:43 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:40 pm
Just being straight forward as usual here Piet...new Benedikt just seems softer and darker than fearsome Benedikt to my untrained eye.....and I would say my image was more of a watery colory look which I think a touch different than painterly but that's just semantics......yes a new word "colory".....Bahahaha
There is always room here for colory remarks - LOL - water color, still with a paint brush right? But yeah, I take your point!

Edit - and I agree that this isn't really very "painterly".. But to see the "edge" difference, take a close look a the top of the shield, that is a good place to see how that edge softened up considerably - and in a "painterly" way, not just made softer or blurred.

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Post by minniev » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:16 pm

I am so glad Benedikt has come back to visit with us. He has changed a bit. He is looking a bit more like wet media made him. I agree he is coming along in a more artistic fashion. Still, as Frank says, he is less fearsome. Has his personality changed? Has he been tamed? Are you, his creator, still using the gradient map painting technique that you taught me? Is is still doing what you want? Have you added any technique? What kinds of brushes are you using?

Another book about painting, Susan Bloom's Digital Painting in Photoshop, got it for about $1 on Amazon Used since it's an older edition, but I can figure out where everything is on the current PS. Just in case you want a whole new set of stuff to get confused with. I'm still working through it.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:38 pm

minniev wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:16 pm
I am so glad Benedikt has come back to visit with us. He has changed a bit. He is looking a bit more like wet media made him. I agree he is coming along in a more artistic fashion. Still, as Frank says, he is less fearsome. Has his personality changed? Has he been tamed? Are you, his creator, still using the gradient map painting technique that you taught me? Is is still doing what you want? Have you added any technique? What kinds of brushes are you using?

Another book about painting, Susan Bloom's Digital Painting in Photoshop, got it for about $1 on Amazon Used since it's an older edition, but I can figure out where everything is on the current PS. Just in case you want a whole new set of stuff to get confused with. I'm still working through it.
Frank made me check out the filter stylize commands, they work pretty good and are fun. I had never seen them before, they are worth getting into. There is always a book right? I read them and forget them though the tiniest little bit has to remain behind. I am liking Schmid's Alla Prima book - am reading it five or ten pages a day hoping that I retain better. And when I finish, no more cheating with filters, I will attempt to overpaint an image properly with brush strokes. Mostly all the filters do is make things squigly. I think brush strokes is the only good answer... though some actions (like the one Frank uses) have some very nice effects. And of course Painter is always tempting, but I figure it must be better to learn the basics on photoshop anyway...

Only hard liquor and the right woman will tame Benedikt - and then it is just a temporary thing before he goes out egg hunting again.

I like the gradient map routine for color control. I was trying some filters and masking for edge control. I figure contrast type things with dodging and burning will provide a little bit of value control. And if you begin with a photograph, then you really don't need to know how to draw! (Though knowing how to draw would be wonderful for adding detail and taking it further. But I am thinking you really can't avoid painting over on top of things for a true painterly effect..

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Post by minniev » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:19 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:38 pm

Frank made me check out the filter stylize commands, they work pretty good and are fun. I had never seen them before, they are worth getting into. There is always a book right? I read them and forget them though the tiniest little bit has to remain behind. I am liking Schmid's Alla Prima book - am reading it five or ten pages a day hoping that I retain better. And when I finish, no more cheating with filters, I will attempt to overpaint an image properly with brush strokes. Mostly all the filters do is make things squigly. I think brush strokes is the only good answer... though some actions (like the one Frank uses) have some very nice effects. And of course Painter is always tempting, but I figure it must be better to learn the basics on photoshop anyway...

Only hard liquor and the right woman will tame Benedikt - and then it is just a temporary thing before he goes out egg hunting again.

I like the gradient map routine for color control. I was trying some filters and masking for edge control. I figure contrast type things with dodging and burning will provide a little bit of value control. And if you begin with a photograph, then you really don't need to know how to draw! (Though knowing how to draw would be wonderful for adding detail and taking it further. But I am thinking you really can't avoid painting over on top of things for a true painterly effect..
I fully agree with you about the squiggly things that Topaz induces. I think there are ways to mitigate it but I haven't learned them yet so I use it sparingly, and only certain filters. Corel Painter has more controls but the auto paintings have their own issues (more blobs than squiggles), and Painter doesn't integrate with PS, so that's aggravating. Painter is probably better for freestyle painting but if I could do that, I wouldn't be fooling with this stuff anyway. I have an old version of Painter so it doesn't have the bells and whistles of the current edition, but it's got most stuff. It isn't magic, I promise.

With the filter stylize thingys, are you using find edges or what? Most of Bloom's techniques rely on find edges or glowing edges to get the outline settled, a few use emboss but I haven't tried them yet. Have you tried painting with a pattern brush or history brush? I've experimented but clearly no good results yet.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:55 am

minniev wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:19 am
PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:38 pm

Frank made me check out the filter stylize commands, they work pretty good and are fun. I had never seen them before, they are worth getting into. There is always a book right? I read them and forget them though the tiniest little bit has to remain behind. I am liking Schmid's Alla Prima book - am reading it five or ten pages a day hoping that I retain better. And when I finish, no more cheating with filters, I will attempt to overpaint an image properly with brush strokes. Mostly all the filters do is make things squigly. I think brush strokes is the only good answer... though some actions (like the one Frank uses) have some very nice effects. And of course Painter is always tempting, but I figure it must be better to learn the basics on photoshop anyway...

Only hard liquor and the right woman will tame Benedikt - and then it is just a temporary thing before he goes out egg hunting again.

I like the gradient map routine for color control. I was trying some filters and masking for edge control. I figure contrast type things with dodging and burning will provide a little bit of value control. And if you begin with a photograph, then you really don't need to know how to draw! (Though knowing how to draw would be wonderful for adding detail and taking it further. But I am thinking you really can't avoid painting over on top of things for a true painterly effect..
I fully agree with you about the squiggly things that Topaz induces. I think there are ways to mitigate it but I haven't learned them yet so I use it sparingly, and only certain filters. Corel Painter has more controls but the auto paintings have their own issues (more blobs than squiggles), and Painter doesn't integrate with PS, so that's aggravating. Painter is probably better for freestyle painting but if I could do that, I wouldn't be fooling with this stuff anyway. I have an old version of Painter so it doesn't have the bells and whistles of the current edition, but it's got most stuff. It isn't magic, I promise.

With the filter stylize thingys, are you using find edges or what? Most of Bloom's techniques rely on find edges or glowing edges to get the outline settled, a few use emboss but I haven't tried them yet. Have you tried painting with a pattern brush or history brush? I've experimented but clearly no good results yet.
Lines - yes - (I've got one of Bloom's older books too). The edge routines work. But I am just as happy with Topaz Simplify for that - It has many edging, lining and cartooning features. But as always, the trick has to be to not take the whole effect but rather to mask and or blend.

My dark Benedikt doesn't line well, (but my original photo of it does) -- here are my pelicans lined.. (the layer could sharpen the outline of things with multiply for instance...


about history and pattern brush, no.. Mixer brush YES (it can soften edges nicely). Grut brushes - yes. But all these things are but tools. Granted learning how to use a tool is important, but much more important (and where I really lack skill and knowledge), is WHAT to DO with the tools!!!


I am finding for myself the key is to decide what I wish to accomplish, and then use a tool to make that happen. Instead of just "liking" something and being satisfied. It is the beginning to being in control..
original.jpg
original
lines.jpg
lines
multiply.jpg
lines in multiply blend mode

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Post by St3v3M » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:07 am

A little inspiration. S-
- Beric Dondarrion's fire sword
"Take photographs, leave footprints, steal hearts"

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