"Don't sit down and wait for the opportunities to come. Get up and make them." —Madam C.J. Walker

― Artistic Expression Critiquecreating a battle scene

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PietFrancke
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Re: creating a battle scene

Post by PietFrancke » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:54 pm

Duck wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:18 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:14 pm
[...] I showed Buffy her picture and she growled at me, I don't think I got it quite right!!
Umm... I think you're changing the narrative here. What's in your head?Why the sudden surrealism?
I agree - I think an element is needed around where the dog is, but the dog is not appropriate to the scene - I'm sure there were war dogs, but as Frank pointed out, this particular dog in this particular pose (even with the teeth), is not effective to the story.

As to what is going on in the head, it is likely fatigue. I find myself liking the current colors less and less and am losing interest in the scene. Well, I didn't say that well, I am losing my confidence that the image presents itself well. The swordsman looks flat, the horseman in the distance doesn't read well. The vultures to the left are iffy at best.

I ordered some books on Frazetta that may help, but my figures in general really aren't dynamic. I am thinking that a raging battle scene is outside of my abilities, but perhaps I can develop a death dealer sitting on a horse in a heavy/moody environment.

So to summarize my thinking … I fear I am getting Stupid - I do that more often than I wish I did...

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:54 pm
Duck wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:18 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:14 pm
[...] I showed Buffy her picture and she growled at me, I don't think I got it quite right!!
Umm... I think you're changing the narrative here. What's in your head?Why the sudden surrealism?
I agree - I think an element is needed around where the dog is, but the dog is not appropriate to the scene - I'm sure there were war dogs, but as Frank pointed out, this particular dog in this particular pose (even with the teeth), is not effective to the story.

As to what is going on in the head, it is likely fatigue. I find myself liking the current colors less and less and am losing interest in the scene. Well, I didn't say that well, I am losing my confidence that the image presents itself well. The swordsman looks flat, the horseman in the distance doesn't read well. The vultures to the left are iffy at best.

I ordered some books on Frazetta that may help, but my figures in general really aren't dynamic. I am thinking that a raging battle scene is outside of my abilities, but perhaps I can develop a death dealer sitting on a horse in a heavy/moody environment.

So to summarize my thinking … I fear I am getting Stupid - I do that more often than I wish I did...
You are feeling stupid because you have changed horses mid-race. This happens to me all the time in editing. I lose track of what I started to do because I found a shiny thing along the road and picked it up and stuck it in the frame. Then I found another. Pretty soon I have to change the story to try and match the shiny things or tie one shiny thing to another. My advice? Go back to your original vision, find the place where you switched horses and started picking up shiny things, get on your first horse and throw down the shiny things and get yourself on the path you started with.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:20 pm

minniev wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:54 pm
Duck wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:18 pm


Umm... I think you're changing the narrative here. What's in your head?Why the sudden surrealism?
I agree - I think an element is needed around where the dog is, but the dog is not appropriate to the scene - I'm sure there were war dogs, but as Frank pointed out, this particular dog in this particular pose (even with the teeth), is not effective to the story.

As to what is going on in the head, it is likely fatigue. I find myself liking the current colors less and less and am losing interest in the scene. Well, I didn't say that well, I am losing my confidence that the image presents itself well. The swordsman looks flat, the horseman in the distance doesn't read well. The vultures to the left are iffy at best.

I ordered some books on Frazetta that may help, but my figures in general really aren't dynamic. I am thinking that a raging battle scene is outside of my abilities, but perhaps I can develop a death dealer sitting on a horse in a heavy/moody environment.

So to summarize my thinking … I fear I am getting Stupid - I do that more often than I wish I did...
You are feeling stupid because you have changed horses mid-race. This happens to me all the time in editing. I lose track of what I started to do because I found a shiny thing along the road and picked it up and stuck it in the frame. Then I found another. Pretty soon I have to change the story to try and match the shiny things or tie one shiny thing to another. My advice? Go back to your original vision, find the place where you switched horses and started picking up shiny things, get on your first horse and throw down the shiny things and get yourself on the path you started with.
overwhelmed, Duck warned me to keep assets seperate. I ended up over 80 layers and I got rid of a lot of the more useless ones. The layers and complexity piled up fast. First I would have an image, then I would crop it and move it onto the scene. I would take a lot of time creating a mask and then I'd have 6 or 7 resulting layers that all used that mask.

And I would end up combining them and roughing up the edges to make it look good. So by the time an asset was integrated, I would have a significant amount of time invested in it. I need a process that frees me from that. I think it would be good to be able to do the composition without any integration. Even without a background - I am thinking the background is best to come in last, so that the one you pick doesn't constrain you so much.

But all this is very difficult, because I am a creature of instant gratification. Do a lot of work and see the cool results. It is hard to build something up more slowly, more controlled. If the assets are kept as individual items, then a lot more becomes possible.

I am thinking that for each asset you:
1) photograph under similar soft diffused lighting
2) Crop
3) turn grey scale
4) Mask
5) Paint the base colors

Then at the time you pull it in, you
1) resize
2) place
3) adjust

And build a composition... And only then do you:
1) adjust contrast and saturation based on depth in the image
2) paint in highlights and shadows
3) Add a background
4) Add warmth and cold selectivly based on the background
5) Rough the edges

And Then, Process the image to establish mood and add textures and all that.

Which basically means that you don't get the rewards until the end...

I will attempt my next scene with three elements and try to follow my own rules established above.
I ordered some more models - It is fun to be able to paint them in PS, it is unbelievable how difficult it is to paint them in the real world, especially as we age. Coffee makes you shake and age makes the hands less steady, so PS is a wonderful addition that brings new life to the hobby.

I liked the last close up soldier that is on the left, I think that one goes a long ways to show the potential of this. These models have a great amount of detail, and I did a poor/rushed job on that soldier, but I think it looks great.

I will have to wait a couple of months for my sixty dollar shipment to arrive from Russia, but here is an image to see one of the soldiers I am getting and will be playing with.
horse.jpg

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:29 pm

He's very cool. I'm sure it'll be a great set. And photographing them all in the same light, in positions that you may can actually use them in, will solve many of your problems.

I am sure you are methodically labeling your layers, but if you need more specificity in the labels, do that too.

i love watching you work on these things. Please share the 3-piece composition as you go. We learn from you even when you don't know it. You are a great teacher, too.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by Psjunkie » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:39 pm

amazing Piet....

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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:47 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:39 pm
amazing Piet....
Thank you Minnie -- Frank - just to be clear, if you are complimenting that last photo, that's off the internet, but believe me, I intend to capture every last bit of that kind of detail.

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Post by Psjunkie » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:06 am

Sorry......I meant your whole process

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St3v3M
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Post by St3v3M » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:18 am

I Iove this time period and have really enjoyed watching the progression of this series. Thank you for working through this! S-
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