"Sometimes imagination is no more than randomness applied." —Piet Francke

― Artistic Expression CritiqueThe Chase

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Psjunkie
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Re: The Chase

Post by Psjunkie » Tue May 22, 2018 1:27 pm

davechinn wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:12 pm
Some cool stuff here Frank !!! An intense capture where the cropped version has more impact, but thats not to say your first is a failure. I like both very much. For an artistic version cloning and changing colors would work as well. My thoughts are, if you plan on that route, why not clone all players out except the front runner, ball and background net/goal? Just my thought, but either would work, IMO. As for an action shot, what you have captured is what it is and I wouldn't change anything. So many options to choose only makes it difficult to decide a route, but I'm sure you already have one in mind already.
Dave
Well we think along the same lines it seems Mr. Chinn...I was typing the previous response as you posted I guess..thank you for comment and good to see you back in here after your project...looking forward to more of your images....

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Post by PietFrancke » Tue May 22, 2018 3:39 pm

I like them both, for me the first was the favorite, because of all the grins and support. I see a Team enjoying fellowship, hard work, and a sport that they clearly love. The boy in yellow happened the be the only issue in my mind.. due to the missing face.

I think you are the Ad Manager for your action, and for the soccer team. Awesome!!

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Post by Duck » Tue May 22, 2018 8:24 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:21 pm
[...] for the sake of stepping up critique just a bit I would like thoughts on the loss of all the character of the original image with the crop, it does as minniev points out, become more of a portrait...for me it looses all the game interaction without the rest of players..I also feel the original has a feeling of depth and balance with the size reduction diminishing from left to right [...]

Because this is a learning forum, i often tend to play "devil's advocate" just to show an alternative. I feel this serves several purposes; expand one's own thinking, educate those who are following the conversation, illustrate alternate techniques, etc. In my critique below I looked at your results and immediately went into my background as an illustrator and graphic artist. So, to answer your question, the short answer is there is no one way to present a scene. Let me elaborate, since this answer is overly simplistic.

Out on the field you were an observer, along with all the other parents and spectators. The only difference is you had a camera that you occasionally opted to use in order to capture a small moment in time, for posterity sake. That task requires no discernible skill since a stationary camera with automatic shutter intervals can do the same thing. Where the skill (and artistry) come in is with you capturing a mood/feeling/story/action/emotion as the scene progresses. But, you can only capture one fraction of the scene from one perspective since you can't be in all places at one out on the field with the players. Furthermore, you are also limited to a much narrower field of view than your eyes are due to the size of the camera's optical limitations. Then, on top of al that, a single frame is a still image of a fluid narrative that unfolds through time with one action or event moving seamlessly into another which tells a story. From that timeline you have the monumental task of timing when to click the shutter in order to effectively portray the events you are witnessing. I think you would agree this is a big task for a photographer.

Here's the caveat; at the time of capture, you are experiencing that event in real time at the actual location using all your senses. Your ears hear the shouting, the cheering, the laughing and cursing. You can smell the sod and the sweat and the fresh air. You can also see the reactions to the events you clicked on. Your peripheral vision picks up on the proud parents the motivating coaches, the players on the field that are not in your viewfinder. All this stimulus imprints on your memory, imbuing your images with a value only you (and those who were there) have. No one else cares. No one else has the same investment you do in those images.

Yes, I know this sounds harsh but there is a point here. Once removed from its environment, a photo is just a historical document. If a viewer has no interest in the events portrayed in that photo there is no emotional connection. Definitely not the same emotional connection you have, or one of the parents. So for many, the photo holds no real value. We can look at it, make a comment, pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you did but beyond that, who cares. It's fleeting. It's crushing. Hopefully it's also motivating because as an artist, as an observer of life, you want to capture the high point (Henri Cartier-Bresson called it the decisive moment) of the drama to capture a strong enough emotion that it pulls the viewer and infers that emotion into them. What emotion depends on the subject, the scene, and how you present it to your viewer. Hopefully in a way that will elevate it beyond a mere snapshot of an event. Fortunately we have lots of tools to help us do this but how? Where to start? Let me take a side step here.

I want you to recall a popular story that has been made into movie, preferably one that has been remade more than once. I'm sure you can name quite a few. The underlying structure is a narrative, a series of events moving fluidly from one to the other in order to tell some form of story. Now think about all the variations that narrative has taken form as; short stories, novels, movies, illustrations, plays or musicals... How about all the derivative works that have spawned from them as well. The narrative is the same, only the perspective is changed or the details are changed. Here's another example; the movie "Vantage Point" with Forrest Whitaker and Dennis Quaid. Here is one narrative viewed from the perspective of several of the movie's characters, each of them seeing something just a bit different.

Why do I bring this up? Because as an artist, you have the ability to take the narrative you have captured and present it in a variety of forms and from different perspectives. One image can present different perspectives. For example, the players on the field with spectators in the background. Cropped one way, with the spectators in the scene, the emphasis of the story is on the game as they watch the players on the field. Crop the spectators out and the story becomes more personal, focusing in on the rivalry of the players on the field. Crop in even tighter and it's a personal story of a player wanting to achieve a goal. Is one better than the other? Is one more important than the other. Is one more correct than the other? You can argue the answer to all these is no. Ultimately it comes down to how you want to tell the story. There is no right or wrong way here. Furthermore, you have to understand that when you are telling a story you should be aware of who your audience is. For example, You would not tell the same story to a stranger in the same way you would tell it to one of the kid's mother. To that respect, you would not process a photo the same way for everyone.

I connect to that tight illustrative version because it pulls a deep lifelong emotion out of me. I have been drawing my entire life so easily relate to that image. The child's mother may not like it since it distorts her child's features too much for her liking. Two viewpoints of the same story. The thing to keep in mind with all this is you have your own perspective as well, having participated, both physically and emotionally, in that story. Your own emotions will influence (does influence) your decisions. If you allow yourself to step away from that influence... the sky is the limit.

Hope my ramblings make sense. ;)
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Post by minniev » Tue May 22, 2018 9:35 pm

The first image is about a soccer game, with all its moving disparate parts. You've used the Action and your own skill to emphasize some parts more than others, so it works, as it is, to showcase the action of the game but without leaving spectators and other players behind.

The second image is all about the boy with the ball. The others are supporting actors with bit roles. The second is about power and the surge of energy a boy with a ball has at that moment, the focus and intensity. It carries more emotion to a viewer who doesn't know any of the subjects because the emotion is right there in our face.

My suggestion: ask the boy with the ball.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by Psjunkie » Tue May 22, 2018 9:45 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:39 pm
I like them both, for me the first was the favorite, because of all the grins and support. I see a Team enjoying fellowship, hard work, and a sport that they clearly love. The boy in yellow happened the be the only issue in my mind.. due to the missing face.

I think you are the Ad Manager for your action, and for the soccer team. Awesome!!
Thank you Piet for your input...

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Post by Psjunkie » Tue May 22, 2018 9:46 pm

Duck..minniev, totally understood and appreciated.........

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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:10 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 pm
'nother soccer shot..the good, the bad, the ugly all welcomed.
I love this forum for the helpful honesty it holds!

The original is about as good as it gets and then there's a revision and it changes everything. What's really cool is to keep that in mind with most any image. There's what we see, what we take, what we show, and what the viewer sees. Sometimes the composition is ready and waiting, but other times like this there are choices to be made dependant on the story we want to tell. There are many theories about how to present an image, but for me, it's about the story, the story we want to tell and the viewer to see.

This is a wonderful discussion! S-
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