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Onslow
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Guides for commercial pricing...

Post by Onslow »

I have just been contacted by a national advertising company. A client of theirs is doing a major refurbishment of a local store. The client is a large regional bank. They have seen my website and are interested in me supplying 5 images that disply the local area and capture the "soul" of the region. They have sent me the following as part of the brief.

"If you could provide a cost and or options for perhaps supplying existing image where possible that would be great. The use is as large interior wall graphics within a retail banking environment. Could you cost an outright royalty free type cost. We can't really say how long the will be in use so an open ended agreement would be best."

Hmm, my normal commercial rates don't exist here for this. I normally am hired for specific projects to shoot at an hourly rate, the images are the clients then. This though is more a usage / royalty issue I believe. How I price this right now is unknown. The contact believes that 3 of my images on the website are already suitable..
I know there are guidelines for this sort of situation and am looking them up for application in Australian prices... However, I am sure that there are things that I do not know but need to be aware of such as with the licensing, retaining the copyright etc... Letting others use the image or is it exclusive???
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

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Post by TomCofer »

Congrats on receiving their interests.
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Post by Duck »

Like you, I too mostly do work for hire photography. My clients tend to be small businesses with limited budgets and little understanding and resources for keeping track of licensing. I could care less (at this point in my career) about tracking licenses so that format works best for me. If they are not some major world bank and you are comfortable with that structure just offer a flat rate non-exclusive royalty free purchase for each image. Just make sure you give it a nice hefty price to make it worth your while and give enough of a perceived value to your images.
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Onslow
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Post by Onslow »

TomCofer wrote:Congrats on receiving their interests.

Thanks Tom. :)

Duck wrote:Like you, I too mostly do work for hire photography. My clients tend to be small businesses with limited budgets and little understanding and resources for keeping track of licensing. I could care less (at this point in my career) about tracking licenses so that format works best for me. If they are not some major world bank and you are comfortable with that structure just offer a flat rate non-exclusive royalty free purchase for each image. Just make sure you give it a nice hefty price to make it worth your while and give enough of a perceived value to your images.


I work for hire for commercial work. My portraits etc are paid according to packages I have. I do charge a rate that I think reflects my work. I am not interested in bottom tier clients where there is no appreciation of the work. Most of the competitors in my area are in this bracket. A few are people I have trained in a Beginners Intro to Photography course I have presented. They turn pro during the course???? I am after clients from a different price and quality bracket.

For this job though, I need to make sure that I don't undercut my other clients work. For instance, one of the images if I print at 24x 36 is charged at (for a print I print myself) $450. That is only a print. I have clients who have paid much more than that. So, I won't be cheap, but, I also want a realistic return. I agree re the non exclusive part and retaining the perceived value of my work.

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Post by Bobby Deal »

I would suggest going to Getty Images or Masterfile

At Grtty simply find a rights managed image that fits your brief and then enter the proper usage terms rather than royaltyfree I would use a 5-10 year term

At masterfile you can use their liscense fee calculator then take the teo totals and average it out.

The prices may seem shockingly high to you but they will be legit

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Post by Onslow »

Bobby Deal wrote:I would suggest going to Getty Images or Masterfile

At Grtty simply find a rights managed image that fits your brief and then enter the proper usage terms rather than royaltyfree I would use a 5-10 year term

At masterfile you can use their liscense fee calculator then take the teo totals and average it out.

The prices may seem shockingly high to you but they will be legit


I went to masterfile and registered to find out some prices.. Trying to find the category of large wall prints is difficult. There is no ongoing use for brochures or other things. Strictly one use in the bank. The largest would be around 6 metres in width... So, options I saw went from 13,500 down to around 6,000. I am not convinced though the categories I selected reflect the use.
Hmm, an interesting chat with the person from the agency today. I asked if they were looking to buy copyright as that affects the final price. They wanted to avoid change of personnel screwing up in the future the license conditions. So, that would be preferable. He said they normally pay around $350 for the type of images in similar installations. Now, I think that's bullshit, however, he also said a grand per image couldn't be done. I came back with I had the images already, non exclusive use could be negotiated etc. I said that I didn't want to waste his time nor him mine. I'll contact him in in a couple of days with a price and terms I am happy with.
Now, how to get that? Taking into account that I am on a pension, the potential of say, 3- 5 grand is probably better than none even though I know it's undervalued for the use.... Sell my soul or keep the head high????

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Post by pop511 »

You must be getting Sydney_itis down there
Up here it's all work and no pay, but you are allowed to keep your photos...No thanks.
How much is it worth to you, your time and expertise? Forget everyone else and charge what "you" think is fair.
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Bobby Deal
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Post by Bobby Deal »

If the use is simply as large scale wall art you do need to consider they could go the Microstock route and find royalty free non exclusive use in perpetuity for next to nothing. If exclusivity is not a deal breaker for them then they could indeed find the images they want in either Microstock or traditional royalty free stock at the price point f $350 per image. Puruse some royalty Free images at Getty to get an idea of the price range they would likely be looking at. If it is to be a royalty free liscense then it is money you should take as ot does not restrict your ability to liscense the images again in the future or to sell prints etc. the only thing it takes off the table is a full rights buy out for all exclusive rights world wide. Many other market dependent exclusive uses would still be on the table.

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Post by Rodeoshooter »

Onslow wrote:
Bobby Deal wrote:I would suggest going to Getty Images or Masterfile

At Grtty simply find a rights managed image that fits your brief and then enter the proper usage terms rather than royaltyfree I would use a 5-10 year term

At masterfile you can use their liscense fee calculator then take the teo totals and average it out.

The prices may seem shockingly high to you but they will be legit


I went to masterfile and registered to find out some prices.. Trying to find the category of large wall prints is difficult. There is no ongoing use for brochures or other things. Strictly one use in the bank. The largest would be around 6 metres in width... So, options I saw went from 13,500 down to around 6,000. I am not convinced though the categories I selected reflect the use.
Hmm, an interesting chat with the person from the agency today. I asked if they were looking to buy copyright as that affects the final price. They wanted to avoid change of personnel screwing up in the future the license conditions. So, that would be preferable. He said they normally pay around $350 for the type of images in similar installations. Now, I think that's bullshit, however, he also said a grand per image couldn't be done. I came back with I had the images already, non exclusive use could be negotiated etc. I said that I didn't want to waste his time nor him mine. I'll contact him in in a couple of days with a price and terms I am happy with.
Now, how to get that? Taking into account that I am on a pension, the potential of say, 3- 5 grand is probably better than none even though I know it's undervalued for the use.... Sell my soul or keep the head high????


Keep in mind the advertising agency is getting a minimum of 20 percent of the ad buy. For example on a $14,000 ad campaign, the ad agency would receive $2,800 for the campaign. If this is a "National Ad Agency", I would be willing to guess they are not making less than $5,000 on the campaign and most likely substantially more. They have to pay the salaries of all those involved, plus make an obscene profit. Keep in mind you are in business to make a living and a profit. While photographing the Christmas party for one of my local banks (just 5 branches), I was surprised to hear the president of the bank touting how they were in their 3rd year of 100% profit increases. Remembering how bad business is for everyone else right now, they have been doing 100% profit every year.
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