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General Discussionswhat is the complement of red?

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PietFrancke
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what is the complement of red?

Post by PietFrancke » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:15 pm

Learning is HARD...

We are taught that the complement of a color is the one that is on the Other side of the Color Wheel.

Take a look at the Photoshop color wheel as provided by Adobe. You will see something Similar to the left side of the image below - and if you remembered that the complement of Red is the other side... then you might reasonably guess that Blue/Cyan is the complement.

But all the painting books you ever look at will tell you that Green is the correct answer. So from now on, I am using a color wheel that matches tradition - that matches the traditional color wheel.

Photoshop is obviously an awesome program, but WHY do they go so wrong in such a critical area?? I get that on a computer colors come from light instead of paint, but that is no answer - Green is the proper complement to Red, not Blue/Cyan. So place Green Opposite to Red!!
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Post by minniev » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Evidently Adobe has more than one color wheel?

How did you get what you got here? Where did this wheel come from? And pardon my stupidity, but where did the one with the red-green complementarity come from? I know you're off ahead of me, always looking for answers....
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Post by PietFrancke » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:17 pm

minniev wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:31 pm
Evidently Adobe has more than one color wheel?

How did you get what you got here? Where did this wheel come from? And pardon my stupidity, but where did the one with the red-green complementarity come from? I know you're off ahead of me, always looking for answers....
I use a plugin called MagicPicker - It lets me select the one I have on the left, or the one on the right. If I use the Adobe one, I could only get it to look like the one on the left, but I prefer the one on the right which matches the traditional way of thinking about colors (where red and green are considered complement and opposite). Also, it has a button that gives you the location of the different schemes, like triad or complementary or analogic.

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Post by PietFrancke » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:19 pm

minniev wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:31 pm
Evidently Adobe has more than one color wheel?

How did you get what you got here? Where did this wheel come from? And pardon my stupidity, but where did the one with the red-green complementarity come from? I know you're off ahead of me, always looking for answers....
ah... understanding better. Yes - I like that color wheel you are displaying, but that is on a web page. That does not show up for me in the native photoshop program. The magicpicker plugin however does show up in photoshop, which is why I use it, so I can see it as I am picking the color and don't need a separate web screen up.

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Post by minniev » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:01 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:19 pm
minniev wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:31 pm
Evidently Adobe has more than one color wheel?

How did you get what you got here? Where did this wheel come from? And pardon my stupidity, but where did the one with the red-green complementarity come from? I know you're off ahead of me, always looking for answers....
ah... understanding better. Yes - I like that color wheel you are displaying, but that is on a web page. That does not show up for me in the native photoshop program. The magicpicker plugin however does show up in photoshop, which is why I use it, so I can see it as I am picking the color and don't need a separate web screen up.
OK, I understand.

Of course I am used to working with a bunch of windows all stacked around the screen, which most people tell me is crazy, but it works for me. A workspace that suits our own styles is important. I can't work effectively on anyone else's.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:28 am

minniev wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:01 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:19 pm
minniev wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:31 pm
Evidently Adobe has more than one color wheel?

How did you get what you got here? Where did this wheel come from? And pardon my stupidity, but where did the one with the red-green complementarity come from? I know you're off ahead of me, always looking for answers....
ah... understanding better. Yes - I like that color wheel you are displaying, but that is on a web page. That does not show up for me in the native photoshop program. The magicpicker plugin however does show up in photoshop, which is why I use it, so I can see it as I am picking the color and don't need a separate web screen up.
OK, I understand.

Of course I am used to working with a bunch of windows all stacked around the screen, which most people tell me is crazy, but it works for me. A workspace that suits our own styles is important. I can't work effectively on anyone else's.
at the moment my work desk has limitted space, else I would hook up a second monitor..

On another note, got some not so good shots of baby bluebirds getting ready to fledge. And indeed, the two that we knew were in there DID fly away today. Which was a good thing, saw mom and dad chase off a black snake. It waited and then made a beeline to the post that held the blue bird house, and both parents chased it away again - they took turns harrassing it. But the snake will win the war at night. The fledlings hopefully will not return and will now roost on a tree branch someplace..

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Post by Duck » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:46 am

The short answer to your query on the differences between the two color wheels is this;

The color wheel on the left (default PS) is an additive color wheel and represents the use of adding light to represent individual colors. I.e. adding different values of red, green and blue light to create a wide range of colors.

The color wheel on the right represents a subtractive color wheel which is more commonly used by traditional artists working with traditional (physical) mediums. It's referred to as a subtractive process because a colored surface absorbs (subtracts) a certain range of the visible color spectrum in order to reflect the surface's true color to our eyes.

It's interesting because in print a four color process uses CMYK, which represents cyan, magenta, yellow and black in various blends to create a wider spectrum of colors. In digital, the opposite of RGB (red, green, blue) is CMY (cyan, magenta, yellow). I find it funny that the complimentary colors of a digital palette are analog colors used in printing.

This is good to remember because when editing images if you want to add yellow, for instance, you can do so by reducing blue.
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Post by PietFrancke » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:15 am

Duck wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:46 am
The short answer to your query on the differences between the two color wheels is this;

The color wheel on the left (default PS) is an additive color wheel and represents the use of adding light to represent individual colors. I.e. adding different values of red, green and blue light to create a wide range of colors.

The color wheel on the right represents a subtractive color wheel which is more commonly used by traditional artists working with traditional (physical) mediums. It's referred to as a subtractive process because a colored surface absorbs (subtracts) a certain range of the visible color spectrum in order to reflect the surface's true color to our eyes.

It's interesting because in print a four color process uses CMYK, which represents cyan, magenta, yellow and black in various blends to create a wider spectrum of colors. In digital, the opposite of RGB (red, green, blue) is CMY (cyan, magenta, yellow). I find it funny that the complimentary colors of a digital palette are analog colors used in printing.

This is good to remember because when editing images if you want to add yellow, for instance, you can do so by reducing blue.

I was just disappointed that the "traditional" color wheel is not more readily available. To my understanding, there are certain pallete stratagies (like using complements to produce a color type contrast giving high vibrancy). So my thinking is that a traditional color wheel would have been more useful to display (so that you can easily see the complements - they are opposite each other).

I think I am making the argument that as a "seer/observer/chooser" of color, the traditional wheel is more useful to me, what difference does it make from a strategic perspective whether it is additive or subtractive?

But I guess if you are adding light (using PS and a monitor) then an additive wheel is perhaps more useful from a "mixing" perspective?

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Post by Duck » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:15 am
[...] But I guess if you are adding light (using PS and a monitor) then an additive wheel is perhaps more useful from a "mixing" perspective?
As one who plays in both worlds I would argue your above statement this way; If you are retouching or manipulating a photo you are manipulating colors already established in an RGB palette and therefor the additive color wheel would make better sense. After all, you are manipulating the RGB color channels. If you are doing digital painting and are familiar with color mixing in traditional medium then the subtractive color wheel would likely be more comfortable. Specially since you are inventing color relationships. I see each type having it's use depending on the task at hand.
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Post by PietFrancke » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:57 am

Duck wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:07 am
PietFrancke wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:15 am
[...] But I guess if you are adding light (using PS and a monitor) then an additive wheel is perhaps more useful from a "mixing" perspective?
As one who plays in both worlds I would argue your above statement this way; If you are retouching or manipulating a photo you are manipulating colors already established in an RGB palette and therefor the additive color wheel would make better sense. After all, you are manipulating the RGB color channels. If you are doing digital painting and are familiar with color mixing in traditional medium then the subtractive color wheel would likely be more comfortable. Specially since you are inventing color relationships. I see each type having it's use depending on the task at hand.
thanks - that makes sense

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