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General Discussionsperspective - battle scene

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PietFrancke
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Re: perspective - battle scene

Post by PietFrancke » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:58 pm

like this...

Would doing this help, hurt, or make no difference...
perspective7.jpg

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Post by Psjunkie » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:15 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:30 pm
if we wish.
I see what your trying to do now Piet...drag me and minniev in so if something goes wrong you'll have someone to blame it on......Bahahaha

minniev has the perspective thing right but you've gone way beyond my knowledge set...

I am pondering.

Edit: Perhaps this (https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using ... point.html) might help but more than likely it's old news for you ....

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Post by Duck » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:58 pm

Sorry I didn't see this post earlier or I would have weighed in. In the future, don't be afraid to pm or email me to let me know.

First let me answer the perspective question but I might not give you the answer you're looking for. :-)

For this particular illustration you are overthinking the perspective issue. Perspective is a tool used to keep various elements in a scene looking like they all belong together and in relation to the ground plane and each other. It's a useful tool when you have elements across a wide space and of varying heights.

In your illustration you don't need to worry as much about perspective here because of two reasons; One, you are already addressing perspective in the initial photos of the various elements (soldiers) and two, all the action you are presenting is happening on one plane. As long as you photograph each consecutive figure in the same way, the perspectives will all match. That's why I said you are overthinking it. The rest, you can judge by eye and can be adjusted by both angle and scale. What is more important is composition; the relation of each element to each other in order to relate the story you are trying to tell.

As for introducing stock elements (bird), it becomes a matter of just seeing if it "looks right" in the scene. Because you are dealing with organic element (not having straight edges and angles) you have a lot more flexibility with manipulating those elements into the scene. If it looks wrong, loose it and move on to something else.

Where perspective would be helpful would be if you were including elements that sit in front of or behind the already established action. For example, a building, wall or tree behind the fighters, or a trebuchet. Items in the foreground, like other fighters that appear real close to camera, would need their relative perspectives to match the scene.

Hope this allays some fears or apprehensions. I also hope it simplifies your efforts some, as well.
"If you didn't learn something new today, you wasted a day."
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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:23 pm

Duck wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:58 pm
Sorry I didn't see this post earlier or I would have weighed in. In the future, don't be afraid to pm or email me to let me know.

First let me answer the perspective question but I might not give you the answer you're looking for. :-)

For this particular illustration you are overthinking the perspective issue. Perspective is a tool used to keep various elements in a scene looking like they all belong together and in relation to the ground plane and each other. It's a useful tool when you have elements across a wide space and of varying heights.

In your illustration you don't need to worry as much about perspective here because of two reasons; One, you are already addressing perspective in the initial photos of the various elements (soldiers) and two, all the action you are presenting is happening on one plane. As long as you photograph each consecutive figure in the same way, the perspectives will all match. That's why I said you are overthinking it. The rest, you can judge by eye and can be adjusted by both angle and scale. What is more important is composition; the relation of each element to each other in order to relate the story you are trying to tell.

As for introducing stock elements (bird), it becomes a matter of just seeing if it "looks right" in the scene. Because you are dealing with organic element (not having straight edges and angles) you have a lot more flexibility with manipulating those elements into the scene. If it looks wrong, loose it and move on to something else.

Where perspective would be helpful would be if you were including elements that sit in front of or behind the already established action. For example, a building, wall or tree behind the fighters, or a trebuchet. Items in the foreground, like other fighters that appear real close to camera, would need their relative perspectives to match the scene.

Hope this allays some fears or apprehensions. I also hope it simplifies your efforts some, as well.
Heck yes!! thank you. The key for me is to realize that the birds are organic, so why try to attempt linear perspect to them?! Also, at the end I can play with atmospheric perspective and color perspective and perhaps blend in some texture to help resolve issues. (though I am having a frightful time maintaining the same mood with the bird images). But that too will resolve later, so I am not too worried. Lots of work to go, but I got busy and thought, "to heck with it - if it doesn't look right, find something else. My dead body isn't working out too good...

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Post by PietFrancke » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:24 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:15 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:30 pm
if we wish.
I see what your trying to do now Piet...drag me and minniev in so if something goes wrong you'll have someone to blame it on......Bahahaha

minniev has the perspective thing right but you've gone way beyond my knowledge set...

I am pondering.

Edit: Perhaps this (https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using ... point.html) might help but more than likely it's old news for you ....
thank you Frank - This painful rainy day was ALL YOUR FAULT you know!!!

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Post by Psjunkie » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:13 pm

gotta be somebody's, might as well be mine

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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:10 am

Psjunkie wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:13 pm
gotta be somebody's, might as well be mine
you make me learn things and try things, things that I didn't think I could do.

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Post by Matt Quinn » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:23 am

Piet, This all looks and sounds like calculus or particle physics to me, neither of which I studied. But I did hiccup when you mentioned the buzzard. Don't know much about them, but I always thought they show up after the battle, when the living are gone and the dead are spread around. So, I thought the bird would be out of place while the battle is raging.

Man,that's a lot of work. And attention to detail. And patience. And focus. I think I'll reach for a Bud.

Looking forward to the completed scene. Matt
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"...approach the light as opposed to the subject." Stan Godwin

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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:11 am

Matt Quinn wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:23 am
Piet, This all looks and sounds like calculus or particle physics to me, neither of which I studied. But I did hiccup when you mentioned the buzzard. Don't know much about them, but I always thought they show up after the battle, when the living are gone and the dead are spread around. So, I thought the bird would be out of place while the battle is raging.

Man,that's a lot of work. And attention to detail. And patience. And focus. I think I'll reach for a Bud.

Looking forward to the completed scene. Matt
these buzzards are like me, they don't have a lick (ha-ha) of patience.

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Post by St3v3M » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:03 pm

I love the diagrams and think this is an interesting discussion. And I don't know about compositing but for me, it's about feel.

Look at the scene and let it tell you where it belongs. Let it tell you how to place it. Let it tell the story! S-
"Take photographs, leave footprints, steal hearts"

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