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General DiscussionsSuggested changes to the critique section to enhance education

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Duck
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Re: Suggested changes to the critique section to enhance education

Post by Duck » Wed May 16, 2018 8:14 pm

minniev wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:49 pm
I have learned SO much from all of you here, and in other online groups. You have been my teachers, my critics, my encouragers, and my friends. Though I'm very interested in offering more information along with images so that critics know more about what I'm trying to do, I am reluctant to set very many stipulations for the critics because I find I can learn from all of you. To just offer a few examples, Chuck and Duck teach me technique through their wealth of technical knowledge. Steve and Frank teach me to SEE through their amazing vision that is far more than eyesight but some kind of art that is hard-wired into their eyes and brains. Piet and Matt teach me to see poetry in images, no small thing. Ernst and Graham teach me by the example of their own amazing photos, and when they offer an attaboy, I frame it. So all the help I get isn't just problem solving, though problem solving can be a part of it. But what I get is larger than just that. And an attaboy thrown in here and there is OK.

Yeah, I can't pull up exif on a pM photo either.
I'm not proposing eliminating, replacing or diminishing any of what you mentioned. Those are all valuable points. I'm just looking for a way to add another level to what is already here. If that's possible.... :)
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Post by Psjunkie » Wed May 16, 2018 11:30 pm

I am in favor of raising the bar in critique...it has gotten lax in my opinion and I am as guilty as the next of getting lazy commenting on another's image..

St3v3m: would be nice to find out about any easy exif view here...I use this (http://exif.regex.info/exif.cgi) and it was so easy to open an image in a new tab, copy and paste the address into this viewer..rather than having to download the image to my computer, then up to another viewer..I've noticed here when I download an image none of my pp software shows any exif info...I must admit I haven't uploaded any images to other viewers to see if the exif shows...

Edit: I downloaded an image from here and uploaded it to Chuck's site and got nothing.....



I find being able to see the exif helps me learn and also maybe gives me clues on how to help the poster.....

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Post by PietFrancke » Fri May 18, 2018 1:02 pm

I only know what I know... so if I fail to ask for something that You know, please bring it to the surface. Now having said this, the burden of clarity and need should come from the original poster. The greater value is in the Specific. best is Clear, Concise Communication. We must all carefully think about the words we use and what we say and use their strength to improve the craft of ourselves and each other.

We all enjoy feeling good, And the best good feeling is when we improve through learning and hard work. That is So much more satisfying than just being given a compliment. Duck, I savor each of your in depth critiques and tutorials.

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Post by Duck » Fri May 18, 2018 1:35 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:02 pm
I only know what I know... so if I fail to ask for something that You know, please bring it to the surface. Now having said this, the burden of clarity and need should come from the original poster. The greater value is in the Specific. best is Clear, Concise Communication. We must all carefully think about the words we use and what we say and use their strength to improve the craft of ourselves and each other.

We all enjoy feeling good, And the best good feeling is when we improve through learning and hard work. That is So much more satisfying than just being given a compliment. Duck, I savor each of your in depth critiques and tutorials.
Yes, you said it quite well here. I agree, kudos do feel good, but like the mother praising their child's crayon drawings, it does not make them a better artist. I feel it does the opposite; it makes on complacent about their work and progress slows to a crawl. Fortunately, as I mentioned, we have a great bunch of caring members so nothing is said (or taken) in a mean spirited way and that alone is a bonus compared to other sites.

Unlike some self doubters (names withheld to protect the guilty) I know everyone here does have something worth teaching. We all don't know everything and where we have holes in our own knowledge someone else can fill that gap. I think many may not have the language to formulate a concise critique, but that too changes with time and practice. Finding the language of art is part of the education. I know from experience that one's own education grows exponentially if we are tasked with teaching as well.

P.S. I am glad to hear you appreciate my often wordy explanations and tutorials. Something I inherited from Ed Shapiro. :-)
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Post by minniev » Fri May 18, 2018 1:51 pm

Duck wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:35 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:02 pm
I only know what I know... so if I fail to ask for something that You know, please bring it to the surface. Now having said this, the burden of clarity and need should come from the original poster. The greater value is in the Specific. best is Clear, Concise Communication. We must all carefully think about the words we use and what we say and use their strength to improve the craft of ourselves and each other.

We all enjoy feeling good, And the best good feeling is when we improve through learning and hard work. That is So much more satisfying than just being given a compliment. Duck, I savor each of your in depth critiques and tutorials.
Yes, you said it quite well here. I agree, kudos do feel good, but like the mother praising their child's crayon drawings, it does not make them a better artist. I feel it does the opposite; it makes on complacent about their work and progress slows to a crawl. Fortunately, as I mentioned, we have a great bunch of caring members so nothing is said (or taken) in a mean spirited way and that alone is a bonus compared to other sites.

Unlike some self doubters (names withheld to protect the guilty) I know everyone here does have something worth teaching. We all don't know everything and where we have holes in our own knowledge someone else can fill that gap. I think many may not have the language to formulate a concise critique, but that too changes with time and practice. Finding the language of art is part of the education. I know from experience that one's own education grows exponentially if we are tasked with teaching as well.

P.S. I am glad to hear you appreciate my often wordy explanations and tutorials. Something I inherited from Ed Shapiro. :-)
I agree with Piet about your in depth posts, Duck. You have the eye, the technical know-how, and the art knowledge/experience/language that makes those critiques special treasures. Some of us lack your ability in one of those components. We each bring what we have and as you noted, our population is of gentlefolk without the meanspiritedness some of us have run into elsewhere. I agree that we all have gifts of immense value which we may underestimate, and I enjoy meeting each of you where you are, and learning with and from you. It has been a joy to watch us grow.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by St3v3M » Mon May 21, 2018 1:05 am

I'm in! S-
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