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Flowers & Plants CritiqueDreams

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St3v3M
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Re: Dreams

Post by St3v3M » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:21 am

I think I'm about to be Schooled and I love it!

Duck wrote:This is a fantastic image with strong potential. As presented in its color form the image stands on its own but (for me) it is dancing on that fine line between "wow" and "huh?". What I mean by this is it can go either way, depending on how much work I am willing to invest in the viewing.

- It took me awhile to post this for the same reasons. I think it's one of those love it or hate it images, but in my definition That's Art.

Duck wrote:... Of course, people with vision problems will probably hate you for it. :D

- I physically laughed out loud!

Duck wrote:[heading]Critical analysis[/heading]
... Look at the image, compare it against your expectations ...

- The Almighty Expectations, but you're right and I love the analysis!

Duck wrote:[heading]Quick Analysis Tools[/heading]
For images requiring that extra attention in processing I typically default to two quick analytical tools; grayscale and luminance contrast. ...

- I hadn't thought to use Grayscale for this reason and never heard of using Luminance this way. I use the squint on a lot of my images, and I also teach the Turn Look technique where you make the image as large as possible then walk away from the monitor, three to six feet depending on how big the monitor is, then turn and look. The thing you see first is typically where you eye goes first, and in most images should be the subject, or at least support the subject.
- I learned a lot here and will definitely read the tutorial. Thank you for adding that!

Duck wrote:[heading]Solving the problem[/heading]
... Since the colors have been saturated we know there is room for manipulation. ...

- The colors are straight out of the camera, but I'm sure they can be desaturated.

Duck wrote:[heading]Subtlety is best[/heading]

- I agree

Duck wrote:[heading]The results[/heading]
... I hope this information gives you something worthwhile to ponder over. Of course, it's all subjective or, as I like to say, "just my two bits." :thumbup:

- Wow, that was fun, and I learned a lot!

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! I'm indebted for all your help. I love this site! S-
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:46 am

Charles Haacker wrote:... But I wonder if the approach to the improvement could not have been made simpler? :|

After thinking about it for a minute I was wondering the same, essentially can I do this in Lightroom alone? So let's find out!

I'm still learning, but I think I get the gist of it.
- open HSL and choose the 'picker'
- hover over the water
* I was surprised to see it select Yellow
- Adjust Yellow, Hue +50, Saturation +50, Luminance -50
This is a quick try to get close to Ducks
But I'm sure I could adjust the waters 'brightness' too
* You can adjust the Greens a little if you want but I didn't

That was fun and educational too! Thank you for suggesting it! S-
Attachments
Dreams-reworked-2.jpg
Duck's Dreams-reworked
IMG_9093-1-1.jpg
Imitation Duck
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:57 am

Duck wrote:...
:dunce: I guess sometimes I may overdo it?

;) Nah!

Knowledge is a tool and the more tools we have the better we do this crazy thing. Never stop being Duck! S-
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:00 am

I'm posting this for a few days if you'd like to play with the original.

I'm always curious what others will do! S-
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Post by Charles Haacker » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:26 pm

Duck wrote:
Charles Haacker wrote:[...] I also wonder if the (to me) convoluted approach to arriving at a lighter, brighter green wasn't overly complex?
[...] I wonder if the approach to the improvement could not have been made simpler? :|

Fully agree with you on this point, Charles. There is, indeed, a simpler way in Lightroom to do it as you have mentioned. It is in the HSL sliders panel (or in the Adjustment Brush or Radial Filter, or... yeah, there are other ways.) But, alas, I suffer from Teacher's Syndrome and I am compelled to put some kind of learning experience into my critiques.

:dunce: I guess sometimes I may overdo it?

;) Nah!

:thanks: I didn't want to sound argumentative! I also appreciated your detailed step-by-step as I am still intimidated by Phull Photoshop. I started in Elements and used it for years before getting the Creative Cloud and discovering Lightroom. I feel that I am getting a good handle on Lightroom but Photoshop can be scary and frustrating. I learned how to use layers in Elements, and I do know about masking and blend modes, but I tend to stay in LR for almost everything, only heading to PS for thing LR either doesn't do as well, or at all. That was what got me musing about whether these adjustments could be made in LR without having to mask and blend. I watch lots of tutorials on both LR and PS, but I often think I should try to get a real hands-on classroom course in Photoshop, except they are $pendy and I'm poor. ;)
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Post by PietFrancke » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:39 pm

Steve, I really like the water, waves and ripples (to me being the subject), and the flower being a pretty flower adorning the lady of the lake if you will. Duck, that tutorial describing how you think and workflow is awesome. I read it, now I need to read it more carefully perhaps two or three times. Don't ever lose your Teacher Mode!

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Post by Duck » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:44 pm

St3v3M wrote:I think I'm about to be Schooled and I love it!
[...]
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! I'm indebted for all your help. I love this site! S-

I am glad you found it helpful. I have a tendency to fry people's brains sometimes. :D

The "Turn, look" technique is another good one. I do use it a lot but more for relieving eye strain and getting some distance from the imagery in order to reset the brain. That reset often reveals things we either missed or got so accustomed looking at it no longer registers as a problem. Great point.
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Post by Duck » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:49 pm

Charles Haacker wrote:I didn't want to sound argumentative!

Nope, I don't get that vibe from you. No worries.

Charles Haacker wrote:... I am still intimidated by Phull Photoshop. I started in Elements and used it for years before getting the Creative Cloud and discovering Lightroom. I feel that I am getting a good handle on Lightroom but Photoshop can be scary and frustrating.

Believe it or not, I am in the same boat. I persevere with it in order to advance, as we all must. :thumbup:

Charles Haacker wrote:... I tend to stay in LR for almost everything, only heading to PS for things LR either doesn't do as well, or at all...

Yep, me too. I LOVE my Lightroom. So much so that it is the only software I tend to promote and teach to other photographers.
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Post by Charles Haacker » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:56 pm

St3v3M wrote:
Charles Haacker wrote:... But I wonder if the approach to the improvement could not have been made simpler? :|

After thinking about it for a minute I was wondering the same, essentially can I do this in Lightroom alone? So let's find out!

I'm still learning, but I think I get the gist of it.
- open HSL and choose the 'picker'
- hover over the water
* I was surprised to see it select Yellow
- Adjust Yellow, Hue +50, Saturation +50, Luminance -50
This is a quick try to get close to Ducks
But I'm sure I could adjust the waters 'brightness' too
* You can adjust the Greens a little if you want but I didn't

That was fun and educational too! Thank you for suggesting it! S-

I had a hunch it would work. I've got all 3 open in tabs again: your original, Duck's rework, and your LR rework. Your LR rework is very, very close to Duck's. I am terribly lazy, so I tend strongly to the easiest solution I can. That picker thingy, by the way, so far as I know selects a very small range or maybe even a single pixel. If you watch the HSL display as you mouse over the image with the picker, you will see a thin gray hilite moving over the colors to tell you what it is "seeing." That allows you to pick specific colors and adjust them individually, kinda sorta. If you land on green, say, and increase the saturation, it will increase the saturation on all greens and near-greens in the image. That's why I worried a little whether using the Q&D method would also alter the green flower stem, but you worked yellow which had little to no effect on the stem. I am a lazy hey-whatever-works guy. Duck is a by-the-numbers guy. His methods are precise, mine not so much. :oops:
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Post by LindaShorey » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:24 pm

The title set me up to expect something fanciful and I wasn't disappointed. After reading all comments - and having a few "wow" moments over Duck's awesome input, I realized my first response to the original subject and composition was "wow" too :D Engaging, unique, holding my attention and interest - the tweaks to color and such just make it better!
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