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Re: American White Pelican

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:56 pm
by Charles Haacker
LindaShorey wrote:
PietFrancke wrote:Hi Linda, I like the feeling of this and the composition - I also think a tad too blue and would not crop - I like the softness in this subject.

I often underexpose because I like the image better that way, but I think it is a bad habit. I recognize that with the exposure triangle it is always a tradeoff and something always has to give (though I am trying to be willing to use higher ISO on my newer camera). Anyway, I think better to get the best exposure that you can and then establish the mood later in Photoshop or your favorite tool.


You raise an interesting point, Piet: what is the "best exposure" especially if the plan is for a darker image. I have read a lot about ETTR and EBTR, but I've rarely tried. With my bridge camera, I found I had much better results with slightly under-exposing than over, but that was with jpgs of far-distant wildlife. I haven't spent much time doing controlled tests with my new mirrorless cameras, though I discovered when I accidentally over-exposed a closer eagle, the raw had much recoverable detail.

Thanks so much for looking, commenting and giving me food for thought.

I like both versions. The original was too blue, but I thought the crop was fine and the deep darkness made for a standout bird. I very much like that lovely strong, long highlight along the beak which is mostly lost in the rework, but the reflection is better in the rework, and the shifted composition is probably better. I think they both have merit, but on balance I think the rework is an overall improvement.

It's not news to any of us that bridge cameras and compacts have relatively small sensors, some nearly microscopic. I also have heard lots about ETTR and EBTR, and I also have concluded that the technique does not work well with small sensors, and absolutely cannot be used if shooting jpegs rather than raw. I shot nothing but jpegs in tiny-sensor compacts from 2007 thru 2014. One of the first things I Iearned was never to overexpose an important highlight. With jpeg a blocked white is blocked. There's nothing left to recover. I was perfectly content all those years but now I wish I'd gotten into raw earlier (I could have in 2011 when I got my Nikon P7000 but at the time I couldn't easily process it; I didn't like Nikon's software and didn't have a late enough version of Elements). Now that I have Creative Cloud it's been something of a renaissance, and I've staged up to a "massive" 1" sensor (whoop-de-doo), but I'm still cautious about overexposure. I'd rather deal with a little noise in the shadow than block a highlight.

Re: American White Pelican

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:21 pm
by LindaShorey
Psjunkie wrote:I like more of the back ground reeds showing in the second but prefer the composition and cooler tones of the first....the body color of the bird is better..

Thank you, Frank. Appreciate the come-back.

Re: American White Pelican

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:24 pm
by LindaShorey
Charles Haacker wrote:I like both versions. The original was too blue, but I thought the crop was fine and the deep darkness made for a standout bird. I very much like that lovely strong, long highlight along the beak which is mostly lost in the rework, but the reflection is better in the rework, and the shifted composition is probably better. I think they both have merit, but on balance I think the rework is an overall improvement.

It's not news to any of us that bridge cameras and compacts have relatively small sensors, some nearly microscopic. I also have heard lots about ETTR and EBTR, and I also have concluded that the technique does not work well with small sensors, and absolutely cannot be used if shooting jpegs rather than raw. I shot nothing but jpegs in tiny-sensor compacts from 2007 thru 2014. One of the first things I Iearned was never to overexpose an important highlight. With jpeg a blocked white is blocked. There's nothing left to recover. I was perfectly content all those years but now I wish I'd gotten into raw earlier (I could have in 2011 when I got my Nikon P7000 but at the time I couldn't easily process it; I didn't like Nikon's software and didn't have a late enough version of Elements). Now that I have Creative Cloud it's been something of a renaissance, and I've staged up to a "massive" 1" sensor (whoop-de-doo), but I'm still cautious about overexposure. I'd rather deal with a little noise in the shadow than block a highlight.


Thanks so much for your detailed feedback, Chuck! I will look at these side by side in my editor and review each point you and Frank made regarding comparison.

Sensors: this is with an Olympus M4/3 mirrorless, which I believe is larger than my bridge camera, but smaller than the Canon T3i I got rid of :)

Re: American White Pelican

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:01 am
by St3v3M
I've read a lot about how the bird is too blue and it may be true, but the questions I ask are; what did you see, what story do you want to tell, and more importantly although maybe the same is what's the best image to you, or maybe better said, what's your vision for this? S-

Re: American White Pelican

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:08 pm
by LindaShorey
St3v3M wrote:I've read a lot about how the bird is too blue and it may be true, but the questions I ask are; what did you see, what story do you want to tell, and more importantly although maybe the same is what's the best image to you, or maybe better said, what's your vision for this? S-


Thank you for commenting, Steve! A study of light and water patterns, with a cool-looking solitary bird to draw initial attention. Sometimes I have a strong sense of what I want from an image, but often I have more than one idea for the story. This is not one of the written-in-stone works, more a "I'm curious about your response and where I might take this as further exploration."

Re: American White Pelican

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:10 am
by St3v3M
LindaShorey wrote:... This is not one of the written-in-stone works, more a "I'm curious about your response and where I might take this as further exploration."

There are times I'm there too, I know what I want then other stories appear and I wonder which to choose. It's good to have friends like us! S-