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People CritiqueUntitled

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Psjunkie
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Re: Untitled

Post by Psjunkie » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:52 pm

You've don a great job of replacing the back ground minniev, I guess I took your non glamour statement a bit too far so here's one with just some shadow removal and dark eye line....I sent you a link for the other to inspect.
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Post by minniev » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:21 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:40 pm
thanks - Tonality is a new tool? It looks awesome!
Tonality is the Skylum b&w converter, I use it as a PS plugin. Got it when I couldn't get silver efex to work for months, and I didn't believe it ever would work again. I've been happy with it, even now that I've coaxed silver efex back to life.
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Post by minniev » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:22 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:52 pm
You've don a great job of replacing the back ground minniev, I guess I took your non glamour statement a bit too far so here's one with just some shadow removal and dark eye line....I sent you a link for the other to inspect.
YES! Very nice. Thank you, and I'll check the link!
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Post by Duck » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:10 pm

Method of rendering is wholly subjective so I won't go into the technical aspect of manipulating this image. I will, however, make a few comments I am learning about post processing portraits.

There are two types of portraits, those that are done for the subject and those that are done about the subject. The motivation for each are diametrically opposite but both share a core similarity. Here is what I mean;

A portrait done for a person tends to favor the representation of the subject as the subject sees themselves. That's why most people add those tongue in cheek quotes about "photoshopping me thinner" or "make sure you get my best side." It's also why there are so many tools in the retoucher's arsenal to smooth skin, brighten eyes and correct all manners of flaws. In these types of portraits the goal is to create something that flatters the subject while maintaining some sense of the person's character.

The second type, one done about the subject tends to play into the artist's sense of who that person is (or appears to be) and can have a broad range of effects on a viewer's interpretation, right or wrong. These types of portraits tend to free the artist on interpreting the image because there is a lack of restriction (self imposed or one imposed by the subject) on how to interpret the subject. Everything from traditional processing to caricaturing the person is fair game.

In this case you need to walk the line between bringing out what you see and offending the subject because you brought out something false or unflattering. Unfortunately that is a line without guidelines on how to proceed and therefor you'll need to resort to some common factors like maybe bringing out the hardship of her life without making her look like a victim of it. Of course it's easier to explain than to execute. ;)

I like your initial rendering but I think making some small corrections would make it more palatable to the subject. Maybe reduce the blotchiness of the skin, remove the "cut" ( ? ) on her lip and perhaps brighten up the eyes just a touch so they don't disappear into the gloominess of the overall image. For me, the execution is reminiscent of the classics (Rembrandt, Vermeer, et al) but if you notice with all those classic portraits, the eyes are what connect the viewer with the subject.

I really like your first attempt and other than a few minor adjustments, I think it makes a strong comment about the person.
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Post by St3v3M » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:59 pm

When I looked at the original image and thought, wow, then I looked at the second and thought Wow! Then I read all the comments and agree with every one of them, for and against and everything in-between. I'm especially amazed how you were able to pull her from the scene and produce what I think of as a studio quality background, but I've yet to learn Photoshop so maybe that's a given.

As said, there are two kinds of images, those we see and those the subject wants to see. If I were to offer any advice then it would be to think about what you want to produce here, something for your wall or something for hers. Again I say Wow! S-
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Post by minniev » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:06 pm

Duck wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:10 pm
Method of rendering is wholly subjective so I won't go into the technical aspect of manipulating this image. I will, however, make a few comments I am learning about post processing portraits.

There are two types of portraits, those that are done for the subject and those that are done about the subject. The motivation for each are diametrically opposite but both share a core similarity. Here is what I mean;

A portrait done for a person tends to favor the representation of the subject as the subject sees themselves. That's why most people add those tongue in cheek quotes about "photoshopping me thinner" or "make sure you get my best side." It's also why there are so many tools in the retoucher's arsenal to smooth skin, brighten eyes and correct all manners of flaws. In these types of portraits the goal is to create something that flatters the subject while maintaining some sense of the person's character.

The second type, one done about the subject tends to play into the artist's sense of who that person is (or appears to be) and can have a broad range of effects on a viewer's interpretation, right or wrong. These types of portraits tend to free the artist on interpreting the image because there is a lack of restriction (self imposed or one imposed by the subject) on how to interpret the subject. Everything from traditional processing to caricaturing the person is fair game.

In this case you need to walk the line between bringing out what you see and offending the subject because you brought out something false or unflattering. Unfortunately that is a line without guidelines on how to proceed and therefor you'll need to resort to some common factors like maybe bringing out the hardship of her life without making her look like a victim of it. Of course it's easier to explain than to execute. ;)

I like your initial rendering but I think making some small corrections would make it more palatable to the subject. Maybe reduce the blotchiness of the skin, remove the "cut" ( ? ) on her lip and perhaps brighten up the eyes just a touch so they don't disappear into the gloominess of the overall image. For me, the execution is reminiscent of the classics (Rembrandt, Vermeer, et al) but if you notice with all those classic portraits, the eyes are what connect the viewer with the subject.

I really like your first attempt and other than a few minor adjustments, I think it makes a strong comment about the person.
Thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful response. Yes, I found myself on that vague line between what she might want and what I might want. I run into the same things with street photos (retreat snapshots are the same thing, really). I've taken photos on the street that are developed in grungy ways that emphasize the flaws and character of the subject and present it artistically. I've also taken photos that I mean to print and give to those folks on my next trip. This is similar.

Your points about changes to be made in the version I offer this lady are well taken and I'll work on them. Some will take more skill than I perhaps have, particularly dealing with the area under the distant eye. I'm not exactly sure about improving the clarity/brightness of the eyes, either, but I'll give it a try.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:07 pm

St3v3M wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:59 pm
When I looked at the original image and thought, wow, then I looked at the second and thought Wow! Then I read all the comments and agree with every one of them, for and against and everything in-between. I'm especially amazed how you were able to pull her from the scene and produce what I think of as a studio quality background, but I've yet to learn Photoshop so maybe that's a given.

As said, there are two kinds of images, those we see and those the subject wants to see. If I were to offer any advice then it would be to think about what you want to produce here, something for your wall or something for hers. Again I say Wow! S-
Thanks Steve. I will do some figuring in between what I hope is her view of herself, and my artistic interpretation of that.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by St3v3M » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:24 pm

minniev wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:07 pm
Thanks Steve. I will do some figuring in between what I hope is her view of herself, and my artistic interpretation of that.
Ultimately I believe that is the balance you're looking for, a little of what she sees and a little of how you see it.

I'm looking forward to seeing more! S-
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Post by davechinn » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:52 pm

minniev wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:03 pm
This is an experiment (isn't most of what I post an experiment?). It's a snapshot I took a couple of weeks ago at a work retreat I helped host for my husband's office, at our country house. My husband works for the local Indian tribe, so most of his coworkers are Native Americans. This was shot late in the day, when everyone was hot and tired and full of hamburgers, but I thought this lady quite beautiful and her pensive expression was worth trying to make something more out of. So I carved her out of the throng of other participants, folding chairs, tents, barbecue grills and assorted debris, and worked with textures and layers to do something different. I know there's lots I should do better and want to get feedback. I'm terrible with selections, and pretty bad with people photos so anything can help. I don't want to glamour her, so I left most of the flaws, but I'm open to some improvements along those lines if they are not going too far from the character I'm trying to convey, if that makes any sense.


An experiment turned to success !!! It's not unusual for anyone to portray themselves different from what is in a photo of ones self vs what was portrayed from the photographer. Some folks dislike seeing a picture of themselves, for what ever reason, maybe they don't value their appearance as others do. We all have favorites of ourselves, smiles, smirks or frowns. Her expression shows a sign of sadness, but we don't know that to be the case. It could just be coincidental, while in deep thought and I sense that based on the environmental characteristics of the original. I may be way off base, but that's my speculation. Having said that, I think you did quiet well with what was handed to you.Yes, there are flaws, but we all know it's not a perfect world. I wouldn't change a thing. A job well done in my book. I would think she would be quite happy with your version of herself Minnie !!!
Dave
http://www.davechinn.com/

Don’t shoot what it looks like. Shoot what it feels like.
David Alan Harvey

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Post by St3v3M » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:55 pm

"It's the flaws that make the art." S-
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