"Sometimes imagination is no more than randomness applied." —Piet Francke

― Architecture ShowcaseIllinois: Old State House (Springfield); Restored LDS Temple (Nauvoo)

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Charles Haacker
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Illinois: Old State House (Springfield); Restored LDS Temple (Nauvoo)

Post by Charles Haacker » Fri May 12, 2017 3:03 pm

I am still dinkin' around with old stuff, 2012 in these cases with my then new Nikon P7000. That camera was raw-capable but I wasn't (so to speak :| ). I would continue to shoot all jpegs for 3 more years, but I continued to preserve the original SOOC jpeg in untouched condition so I could go back in 2017 and reprocess the originals in Lightroom.

The Illinois State House was the seat of state government from 1840 to 1876. Here Lincoln made his famous House Divided speech in June 1858, announcing his candidacy for the U.S. Senate. In order to restore and preserve the Old State Capitol, which had been extensively altered during its life as a courthouse, workers completely dismantled it, stone by stone, and rebuilt it from 1966 to 1969. The public areas of the Old State Capitol were reconstructed to resemble the appearance of the building in 1860, when Lincoln last saw the capitol prior to his departure to Washington. In an homage to Lincoln, Barack Obama declared his candidacy here in 2007.
DSCN0054.EM.jpg
We were only in Springfield for a few hours on our way down to Paducah and the weather was uncooperative (overcast).

The Nauvoo LDS Temple (reproduction) Homeward bound to Madison we made a point of detouring to Nauvoo. We are not Mormons but we have a lot of LDS friends so we know much of the history. Very long and often tragic story short(er), founder Joseph Smith was assassinated and the Mormons were driven out of Nauvoo (as they had been from several other places) in the winter of 1846. The temple had only just been completed. The Mormons tried to sell the building, but meantime it was heavily damaged by a lightning-sparked fire, then a tornado pretty much knocked what was left into its foundation. We had visited the site well before reconstruction began in 2002 so we wanted to go back and see the result.
DSCN0169.EM.jpg
Those awesome photographer's clouds were there! They have not been added. Got lucky! :D
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Post by Didereaux » Fri May 12, 2017 5:41 pm

I really like that 2d one. Yeah the sky certainly adds value to it Looks rather like a mausoleum doesn't it?
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Post by Ceropegia » Fri May 12, 2017 6:08 pm

Keep dinkin' around, I'm loving your old images. I was particularly interested in the restored Mormon Temple. We lived in Carthage, Illinois in the first half of the 60's. Joseph Smith was assassinated in the Carthage Jail. We learned a lot about the Mormons and often visited Nauvoo, frequently to eat at a great restaurant there and to buy the blue cheese for which Nauvoo was famous (at least in Central Illinois). Can't remember the name of the restaurant, but have often wondered if it is still there. As I recall, part of the section of Nauvoo where the Mormons lived had been engulfed by the Mississippi River and the remainder including some large old houses was mostly in ruins. A few stones from the original temple remained. At that time, the area did not have a great deal of tourism except forf Mormons interested in the area. The Utah Church of Latter Day Saints had gained possession of the Carthage Jail which was staffed by Missionaries and was acquiring land around Nauvoo including the site of the original temple which they ultimately planned to restore. I always wondered when they would accomplish that. Looks like it took them a long time to get around to it. I refer to the Utah Church, because a group of Mormons who did not accept Brigham Young as their leader, stayed behind, including Smith's wife and his mother, and eventually called themselves the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints, now simply, the Community of Christ. They had been deeded the the old Smith homestead and had also bought up several important Morman sites in Nauvoo including one lot on the old temple grounds. Their ownership of these properties, especially the temple lot, was a bone of contention between the two groups. The Utah Church needed the temple lot to complete their ownership of the temple grounds which was necessary to achieving their goal to restore the temple. Ultimately the two groups agreed to a land swap, giving complete ownership of the temple site to the Utah Church.

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Post by Charles Haacker » Sat May 13, 2017 12:30 am

Didereaux wrote:I really like that 2d one. Yeah the sky certainly adds value to it Looks rather like a mausoleum doesn't it?

Thanks, Monte. I've always thought it looked very like a mid-19th century Congregational church. There are still many of them standing. It was a good thing the Saints made some pictures of the original before it was destroyed so they could restore it. :|
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Post by Charles Haacker » Sat May 13, 2017 12:58 am

Ceropegia wrote:Keep dinkin' around, I'm loving your old images. I was particularly interested in the restored Mormon Temple. We lived in Carthage, Illinois in the first half of the 60's. Joseph Smith was assassinated in the Carthage Jail. We learned a lot about the Mormons and often visited Nauvoo, frequently to eat at a great restaurant there and to buy the blue cheese for which Nauvoo was famous (at least in Central Illinois). Can't remember the name of the restaurant, but have often wondered if it is still there. As I recall, part of the section of Nauvoo where the Mormons lived had been engulfed by the Mississippi River and the remainder including some large old houses was mostly in ruins. A few stones from the original temple remained. At that time, the area did not have a great deal of tourism except forf Mormons interested in the area. The Utah Church of Latter Day Saints had gained possession of the Carthage Jail which was staffed by Missionaries and was acquiring land around Nauvoo including the site of the original temple which they ultimately planned to restore. I always wondered when they would accomplish that. Looks like it took them a long time to get around to it. I refer to the Utah Church, because a group of Mormons who did not accept Brigham Young as their leader, stayed behind, including Smith's wife and his mother, and eventually called themselves the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints, now simply, the Community of Christ. They had been deeded the the old Smith homestead and had also bought up several important Morman sites in Nauvoo including one lot on the old temple grounds. Their ownership of these properties, especially the temple lot, was a bone of contention between the two groups. The Utah Church needed the temple lot to complete their ownership of the temple grounds which was necessary to achieving their goal to restore the temple. Ultimately the two groups agreed to a land swap, giving complete ownership of the temple site to the Utah Church.

Terrific history, Martha! Thank you, and thank you for not minding my digging up old stuff! We also were very interested to see that restored temple. When we first arrived in Wisconsin in 1994 we took various day trips over the next few years, and we made a point of visiting Nauvoo because we were friends with a number of Mormons. When we had our studio we became their wedding photographer of choice, which was fine by us because Mormons don't drink! We loved doing Mormon weddings because they never got blind staggering drunk and into cake fights and such. :thumbdown: Our son's daycare provider was a devout Mormon. We were so close to her that we drove to Salt Lake City to do her wedding at the temple. We could not go inside of course, but we could and did shoot all over the temple grounds. In the process we naturally studied a lot about LDS (there were many efforts to convert us (N) ). When we first saw Nauvoo it was as you saw, the temple foundation or at least its outline, mostly random stones. There was a Plexiglas cased model of the proposed restoration and a nice old gentleman who explained some of the history, including the fact that there had been a schism between the Utah faction and those remaining in Nauvoo, but he didn't at that time say anything about the schism holding up the restoration. Your enlightening me on that explains a lot! I did know that the recently bereaved widow (Emma I think her name was) refused to trek west with Brigham Young. My reading says she had become virulently opposed to the "plural marriage" thing, which was another major bone of contention between the two groups.
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Post by St3v3M » Sun May 14, 2017 9:42 pm

I'm alway amazed how well built these buildings must be to have stood the test of time, built before the days of permits, structural engineers, cad design, controlled building materials. I realize they were built with thicker walls and meant to last, but time has a way of testing things and they are still there, still beautiful!

I guess I'm somewhat fascinated by them, and somewhat overwhelmed, but always happy to see one in its glory. Thank you for sharing these! S-
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Post by Charles Haacker » Mon May 15, 2017 1:52 pm

St3v3M wrote:I'm alway amazed how well built these buildings must be to have stood the test of time, built before the days of permits, structural engineers, cad design, controlled building materials. I realize they were built with thicker walls and meant to last, but time has a way of testing things and they are still there, still beautiful!

I guess I'm somewhat fascinated by them, and somewhat overwhelmed, but always happy to see one in its glory. Thank you for sharing these! S-

That got me thinking about (of all things) the Romans. I read somewhere once that one reason some of their stuff is still around is because they overbuilt everything. For engineering they borrowed Greek mathematics, but they just sort of naturally figured that if one is good, one-and-a-half is better. They invented concrete, and recent tests have shown that their concrete was considerably better than Portland cement, especially in sea water. Modern science thinks it's because they made theirs with volcanic ash.
Friends call me Chuck. :photo: This link takes you to my Flickr albums. Please click on any album to scroll through it.
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Post by St3v3M » Mon May 15, 2017 7:44 pm

Charles Haacker wrote:That got me thinking about (of all things) the Romans. I read somewhere once that one reason some of their stuff is still around is because they overbuilt everything. For engineering they borrowed Greek mathematics, but they just sort of naturally figured that if one is good, one-and-a-half is better. They invented concrete, and recent tests have shown that their concrete was considerably better than Portland cement, especially in sea water. Modern science thinks it's because they made theirs with volcanic ash.

Built to last! S-
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