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Places CritiqueWinter Morning

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minniev
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Winter Morning

Post by minniev » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:33 pm

Nothing special just trying to make sure my camera still works.

Any way to make it more interesting?
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"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:03 pm

cool tree, cool sunrise, cool water, but for some reason the elements fight with each other - you don't have to make it interesting, it IS interesting. This is an image of multiple textures, the grasses and weeds, the tree branches, the waves, the hatching sky, the bark of the base of the tree.

For sunrise, step to the right, for tree, step even further further to the right and shoot tree without the warm backdrop.. I don't know, I like things simpler I guess.

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Post by Psjunkie » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:49 pm

A pleasant image minniev.....with all that's been going on I just couldn't help myself....I've no ideas for improvement
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Post by PietFrancke » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:53 pm

man, it is Amazing what the Human element adds - I like it now - go figure...

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Post by Duck » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:13 pm

Winter Morning 01.jpg
Winter Morning 01.jpg (193.33 KiB) Viewed 331 times
minniev wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:33 pm
Nothing special just trying to make sure my camera still works.

Any way to make it more interesting?

Like Piet says...
PietFrancke wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:03 pm
cool tree, cool sunrise, cool water, but for some reason the elements fight with each other - you don't have to make it interesting, it IS interesting. This is an image of multiple textures, the grasses and weeds, the tree branches, the waves, the hatching sky, the bark of the base of the tree. [...]

At this point it's pretty much subjective as to what can be done. As I look at the image there are two things that jump out at me; color and texture. The colors in the background appear somewhat muted in contrast to the tree element This is in part to the overall editing and in part with what is happening with the texture. Again, the issue with the texture is very subjective and I see why you did it, in order to bring out more detail in the tree itself. Here is what I see...

Because of the toning on the tree (and ground area) it has introduced a lot more middle to dark gray tones, lowering the contrast that would normally be seen in a backlit subject. Combined with the somewhat (just a touch) muted colors of the sunset, also matched by the water, you are actually increasing a lot more of the same grays as with the tree. Gray on gray (the predominant tones) reduce contrast, giving the image a washed out look.

So the question becomes, what is the subject? As Piet mentioned, is it the tree, the sunrise or the water? You can't have them all as it confuses the viewer. I feel the sunset holds the strongest attraction and should therefore be the main subject. So the issue is exposure. Too much exposure in the middle, not enough contrast at the ends. You can use a Curves Adjustment or a Levels Adjustment, both deal with exposure in a similar fashion. I chose Levels since I just needed to deal with the middle and end points. In my screen shot you can see it didn't take much of an adjustment to push the center of attention into the background sky. By losing the detail in the tree and ground the eye has nothing to compete with.

Of course this is only one of hundreds of possibilities...

Winter Morning 02.jpg
Hope this answers some of your questions. :D
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minniev
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Post by minniev » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:12 pm

Duck wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:13 pm
Winter Morning 01.jpg
minniev wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:33 pm
Nothing special just trying to make sure my camera still works.

Any way to make it more interesting?

Like Piet says...
PietFrancke wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:03 pm
cool tree, cool sunrise, cool water, but for some reason the elements fight with each other - you don't have to make it interesting, it IS interesting. This is an image of multiple textures, the grasses and weeds, the tree branches, the waves, the hatching sky, the bark of the base of the tree. [...]

At this point it's pretty much subjective as to what can be done. As I look at the image there are two things that jump out at me; color and texture. The colors in the background appear somewhat muted in contrast to the tree element This is in part to the overall editing and in part with what is happening with the texture. Again, the issue with the texture is very subjective and I see why you did it, in order to bring out more detail in the tree itself. Here is what I see...

Because of the toning on the tree (and ground area) it has introduced a lot more middle to dark gray tones, lowering the contrast that would normally be seen in a backlit subject. Combined with the somewhat (just a touch) muted colors of the sunset, also matched by the water, you are actually increasing a lot more of the same grays as with the tree. Gray on gray (the predominant tones) reduce contrast, giving the image a washed out look.

So the question becomes, what is the subject? As Piet mentioned, is it the tree, the sunrise or the water? You can't have them all as it confuses the viewer. I feel the sunset holds the strongest attraction and should therefore be the main subject. So the issue is exposure. Too much exposure in the middle, not enough contrast at the ends. You can use a Curves Adjustment or a Levels Adjustment, both deal with exposure in a similar fashion. I chose Levels since I just needed to deal with the middle and end points. In my screen shot you can see it didn't take much of an adjustment to push the center of attention into the background sky. By losing the detail in the tree and ground the eye has nothing to compete with.

Of course this is only one of hundreds of possibilities...


Winter Morning 02.jpg

Hope this answers some of your questions. :D
Of course I want to have them all. Probably one of my fatal flaws is the desire to consider the entire scene the subject rather than determining a single point of interest. So if someone asked me what the subject here was I'd probably say something like "the way the bare winter cypress interacts with the winter sunrise". If pressed to choose just one, I'd have reluctantly settled on the tree.

This is a fascinating discussion for me because of my proclivity described above (which everyone here is aware of, too). It affects how I edit. I am pretty sure your version has more dramatic impact, and I like it, but I wouldn't have thought of it because I wouldn't have seen the sunrise as the subject.

Thanks for taking the time to analyze, explain, and SHOW the evidence!
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by Duck » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:30 am

minniev wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:12 pm
Of course I want to have them all. [...]

:D :spank:

Having it all can actually be a choice.
The reason for picking a subject is to clarify the story to the viewer. As with any story, you need a setting, the main character and (often) a protagonist or motivator. When viewing a photo, most people consciously look for that story. If the story isn't there an image can fail.

Most landscapes the story tends to be, "look how beautiful this place is." Often that story is accented with a subject matter of some form. In this case it tends to be more the supporting character. With an image where there are 'no' main character I consider it to be a scene where everything can be considered a supporting character. With no real emphasis on a main player it allows the viewer to roam through an image of their own accord.

You, as the photographer, have to work a little harder by providing an interesting scene, good technical quality and/or an interesting perspective, but it is a viable choice.

In a different perspective, lack of a subject could be considered as "breaking the rules" but I will qualify it by adding that most people who claim to "break the rules" are usually replacing it with another one.

;)
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Post by PietFrancke » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:44 am

reading Duck's reply, seeing Frank's image, thinking about why I like Frank's image...

An image needs a subject - a subject let's the eye rest.

Observation 1) If you have a kitchen sink, then there has to be a very shiny cup inside of it!
Observation 2) The human figure is an incredibly powerful subject (it takes over)

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Post by Duck » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:52 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:44 am
[...]
An image needs a subject - a subject let's the eye rest.

Observation 1) If you have a kitchen sink, then there has to be a very shiny cup inside of it!
Observation 2) The human figure is an incredibly powerful subject (it takes over)

There is whole school of psychology on the visual process. Look up Gestalt Principles and the Law of Pragnanz. Very interesting stuff.
I'm actually preparing a lecture on this subject for February.
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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:00 am

Duck wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:52 am


There is whole school of psychology on the visual process. Look up Gestalt Principles and the Law of Pragnanz. Very interesting stuff.
I'm actually preparing a lecture on this subject for February.
Good!

Thanks!!

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