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― Scapes Showcasethe sky is ink

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PietFrancke
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Re: the sky is ink

Post by PietFrancke » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:02 pm

In Frank's Hoodie thread we were discussing Form and Light - here I drew another head, added the bird and twigs, painted light on the planes, and then ran it through a bunch of filters and used masks to be selective. (A very sloppy and fast effort, but wanted to continue the discussion.

I don't know if my words are correct, but somehow lines develop shape and a little form, and then light and darkness further establishes the form and provides volume.
Skull2.jpg
Skull3.jpg

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Post by Psjunkie » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:40 pm

Well done Piet, your artist is showing again…..as for lines, my thoughts are that they provide a guide for the light to be contoured around for whatever contrast is desired…I could also be wrong but this contrast is what forms shape (more contrast more shape} and contouring the light is the means to achieve the process of making shape, form, and also depth……I think we are saying the same thing but know you have read way more than I on the subject….any thoughts?

Love what you have going on here by the way......

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Post by PietFrancke » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:58 pm

Psjunkie wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:40 pm
Well done Piet, your artist is showing again…..as for lines, my thoughts are that they provide a guide for the light to be contoured around for whatever contrast is desired…I could also be wrong but this contrast is what forms shape (more contrast more shape} and contouring the light is the means to achieve the process of making shape, form, and also depth……I think we are saying the same thing but know you have read way more than I on the subject….any thoughts?

Love what you have going on here by the way......
Language is a very difficult thing! thanks Frank, you bring up a fascinating word that most definitely applies to lines as well as to light and dark - and that I think is when line is used in a contour type of fashion, where it follows the form. So in the end, the lines don't just define the outline (a type of contour), but also can define the inside, by following the form - like a contour map might perhaps. But definitly (while we are talking about lines), lines (can) seperate different areas, and sometimes lines are hard, and sometimes they are soft. And we both know how elusive that "light" word is...

edit - and I love your use of the word contrast here.... contrast here perhaps defined as a sudden change in light. I like that word the way you use it - it makes solid (ha!) sense to me.

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Post by Psjunkie » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:10 am

So I'm terrible with language and agree it's hard...so aren't the lines basically more or less a demarcation of where you are wanting to contour the light so to speak...again I think we are saying the same thing....minniev you can hop in any time and lend a helping comment or two...

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Post by PietFrancke » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:34 am

Psjunkie wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:10 am
So I'm terrible with language and agree it's hard...so aren't the lines basically more or less a demarcation of where you are wanting to contour the light so to speak...again I think we are saying the same thing....minniev you can hop in any time and lend a helping comment or two...
you help me think more clearly, though I tend to ramble a lot. Lines - it means so many things.
Lines:
1) It could be an edge - like an outline, where one thing becomes another thing
2) It can be used as a place holder/map, guideline (as in a component of a sketch that will be further developed)
3) It can be used as hashing, to produce darkness, (and thus contrast - your wonderful use of the word)
4) It can define areas of ambient occlusion (places of ultimate darkness where light can't get in) - like wrinkles, or the mouth line where lips meet
5) It absolutely can be and often is used as a border of a country/shape. This country is light, that one is dark, or perhaps yellow, or green - like you said, it divides - it creates/defines potential areas of contrast. A way that things can be organized/grouped/stored.

I'm drawing a line in the sand! Cross it at your own risk. My side, your side, inside, outside...

Edit - note, often it's use is temporary. In the sketch, the line on the top of the skull is critical (because the inside and the outside otherwise look the same. You can't determine where the skull is without it. but in a painting, if contrast is present, then the line can go away - like in my painting, the skull is surrounded by a dark area, so we don't need it anymore.

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Post by Psjunkie » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:49 am

Well stated......glad I making you exercise something..Bahahaha...come to think of it I am exercising also..yuck.

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Post by minniev » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:49 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:34 am
Psjunkie wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:10 am
So I'm terrible with language and agree it's hard...so aren't the lines basically more or less a demarcation of where you are wanting to contour the light so to speak...again I think we are saying the same thing....minniev you can hop in any time and lend a helping comment or two...
you help me think more clearly, though I tend to ramble a lot. Lines - it means so many things.
Lines:
1) It could be an edge - like an outline, where one thing becomes another thing
2) It can be used as a place holder/map, guideline (as in a component of a sketch that will be further developed)
3) It can be used as hashing, to produce darkness, (and thus contrast - your wonderful use of the word)
4) It can define areas of ambient occlusion (places of ultimate darkness where light can't get in) - like wrinkles, or the mouth line where lips meet
5) It absolutely can be and often is used as a border of a country/shape. This country is light, that one is dark, or perhaps yellow, or green - like you said, it divides - it creates/defines potential areas of contrast. A way that things can be organized/grouped/stored.

I'm drawing a line in the sand! Cross it at your own risk. My side, your side, inside, outside...

Edit - note, often it's use is temporary. In the sketch, the line on the top of the skull is critical (because the inside and the outside otherwise look the same. You can't determine where the skull is without it. but in a painting, if contrast is present, then the line can go away - like in my painting, the skull is surrounded by a dark area, so we don't need it anymore.
I hope y’all will still be thinking this hard when the holidays pass and my mind can sit still long enough to think with you. Yes, the line is needed in the sketch, a demarcation to guide the eye into recognizing shape. But in your creation, it isn’t really needed because that one has turned into more than sketch and you’re using other tools to define shape and create contour. That’s something I have a basic grasp of. What I don’t have is command of perspective. And more importantly, I don’t have the dexterity to put what my eyes see or my brain imagines onto paper or screen. I think perspective is part of that, too, and general concept of space. There is something I just don’t have.

I love the bird (both of them), in this quirky, intriguing creation.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:17 am

minniev wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:49 am
PietFrancke wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:34 am
Psjunkie wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:10 am
So I'm terrible with language and agree it's hard...so aren't the lines basically more or less a demarcation of where you are wanting to contour the light so to speak...again I think we are saying the same thing....minniev you can hop in any time and lend a helping comment or two...
you help me think more clearly, though I tend to ramble a lot. Lines - it means so many things.
Lines:
1) It could be an edge - like an outline, where one thing becomes another thing
2) It can be used as a place holder/map, guideline (as in a component of a sketch that will be further developed)
3) It can be used as hashing, to produce darkness, (and thus contrast - your wonderful use of the word)
4) It can define areas of ambient occlusion (places of ultimate darkness where light can't get in) - like wrinkles, or the mouth line where lips meet
5) It absolutely can be and often is used as a border of a country/shape. This country is light, that one is dark, or perhaps yellow, or green - like you said, it divides - it creates/defines potential areas of contrast. A way that things can be organized/grouped/stored.

I'm drawing a line in the sand! Cross it at your own risk. My side, your side, inside, outside...

Edit - note, often it's use is temporary. In the sketch, the line on the top of the skull is critical (because the inside and the outside otherwise look the same. You can't determine where the skull is without it. but in a painting, if contrast is present, then the line can go away - like in my painting, the skull is surrounded by a dark area, so we don't need it anymore.
I hope y’all will still be thinking this hard when the holidays pass and my mind can sit still long enough to think with you. Yes, the line is needed in the sketch, a demarcation to guide the eye into recognizing shape. But in your creation, it isn’t really needed because that one has turned into more than sketch and you’re using other tools to define shape and create contour. That’s something I have a basic grasp of. What I don’t have is command of perspective. And more importantly, I don’t have the dexterity to put what my eyes see or my brain imagines onto paper or screen. I think perspective is part of that, too, and general concept of space. There is something I just don’t have.

I love the bird (both of them), in this quirky, intriguing creation.
the bird is the Northern SkullCap - when they get stuck they scream even louder than the Australian OhNo bird!

About dexterity, Me neither - but I'm getting closer and getting better at refining and seeing things wrong... But with layers and photoshop etc, dexterity is no longer a requirement!

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Post by Psjunkie » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:19 am

rotfl.........hard

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Post by minniev » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:38 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:17 am

the bird is the Northern SkullCap - when they get stuck they scream even louder than the Australian OhNo bird!

About dexterity, Me neither - but I'm getting closer and getting better at refining and seeing things wrong... But with layers and photoshop etc, dexterity is no longer a requirement!
“Northern Skullcap” :D

I do think there is a part of dexterity that PS won’t cure. I can see the things that are wrong but have trouble fixing them. I have the same trouble making composites. I paint myself into a corner almost every time. The corner is almost always in the same place, the inner edge of the middle right third. It is probably the same reason I cannot do other tasks that call for fine motor dexterity and nuances of perception. I am trying to learn some compensations for it, but it’s been a lifelong thing. I am un-graceful in many ways. I admire what you’re learning, and it gives me encouragement to keep up the effort.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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