"Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can." —Arthur Ashe

― Scapes CritiqueAn Homage to Chuck's Torii

Landscapes, cityscapes, skyscapes, seascapes, starscapes, panoramas
User avatar
Charles Haacker
Mentoris Secundus
Mentoris Secundus
Posts: 1077
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:20 pm
Reputation: 96
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Charles Haacker » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:20 pm

Matt Quinn wrote:Thanks Chuck. I appreciate your comment and your sort of standing next to me when I shot it and seeing it the way I did. I like #2 and would love to learn how Frank did his magic but so far my efforts at PS have been destructive and frustrating. Easy for me to lapse back into Lightroom only. But easy is not always the best way. Matt

I only made the switch to Creative Cloud a couple of years ago and instantly fell madly for Lightroom, but I cut my teeth in PS Elements. I realize that storage space for massive files can be an issue, but even now I always work only on a copy, usually a TIF of the LR adjusted raw (DNG), and when I start on that in PS I also duplicate the background layer first to make it easier to back out. It also makes it easier to see what you've done by toggling between the working layer and the untouched background. I always save-as my final TIFF with all the layers intact. That way as I learn more I can return to that file and rework it layer by layer. Like anything else it all takes practice, experimentation, and lots of failures. I am NO Photoshop master! But my approach is and has always been to rise to a particular challenge and learn how to do that. Over time you acquire a personal memory bank of "thats." You watch and rewatch videos or recheck your how-to books. You discover your own workarounds. The at first confusing videos where they go too fast begin to make sense.
One "that" at a time... (!)
Friends call me Chuck. :photo: This link takes you to my Flickr albums. Please click on any album to scroll through it.
(I prefer to present pictures in albums because I can put them in specific order.)

All the great photographers use cameras! No, really. :|

User avatar
Matt Quinn
Mentoris Quartus
Mentoris Quartus
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:12 pm
Reputation: 23
Location: MD in winter: Cape Cod in summer
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Matt Quinn » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:46 am

Thanks Chuck for the encouragement. As a result, I actually watched a few dummy tutorials today and got a dummy book from the library; I will try some exercises and also try to remember what it was like when I first learned LR. That should encourage me. Thanks again. Matt
Matt Quinn

"One should really use the camera as though tomorrow you'd be stricken blind." Dorothea Lange

User avatar
Charles Haacker
Mentoris Secundus
Mentoris Secundus
Posts: 1077
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:20 pm
Reputation: 96
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Charles Haacker » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:29 pm

Matt Quinn wrote:Thanks Chuck for the encouragement. As a result, I actually watched a few dummy tutorials today and got a dummy book from the library; I will try some exercises and also try to remember what it was like when I first learned LR. That should encourage me. Thanks again. Matt

I think it's very much a process. It is for me. I don't think it ever ends, unless maaaaybe you do it for a living. If you spend all day every day doing amazing stuff with (especially) Photoshop I have to figure that you get to a point where you really know the program well. For guys like us it's an ongoing, probably neverending process. I love the Dummies stuff, but I also shop around. Usually if I want to do something I've never done, or have done but not well, I will Google "how to ________" and get back a list of possible tutorials, either video or not. I look for certain names, like Anthony Morganti or Julianne Kost for examples, names I know deliver a good tutorial, not too fast, never seeming to assume that the viewer already knows this stuff. Heck, I don't know when you started getting into digital PP but for me it was about 2005ish, even before I owned a digital camera but would get discs of jpegs from film. My BIL gifted me a copy of Photoshop Elements 2.0 and I was entranced, totally hooked. I still have the Dummies book I bought to teach myself that program, but I already had that lengthy background, a degree in commercial photography, years of professional experience, even more years in darkrooms inhaling the (to me) heady perfume of what we called "hypo" (acetic acid in the stop and fixer baths). Because of that I was primed and ready to do everything (and more) that I'd always done in a darkroom. I had a pretty big leg up and I have to remind myself sometimes that not everybody had those advantageous experiences.
Friends call me Chuck. :photo: This link takes you to my Flickr albums. Please click on any album to scroll through it.
(I prefer to present pictures in albums because I can put them in specific order.)

All the great photographers use cameras! No, really. :|

User avatar
Matt Quinn
Mentoris Quartus
Mentoris Quartus
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:12 pm
Reputation: 23
Location: MD in winter: Cape Cod in summer
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Matt Quinn » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:31 pm

A life in photography -- a good life, Chuck.

I have come to photography as a retirement hobby, having started it some years before I stopped working because many folks, already retired, strongly advised me to get a hobby or retirement would be a problem. One friend, a retired orthodontist, who eventually turned to painting and woodworking, told me he would wake up, ask himself which town he would drive to for gas, piddle around beforehand, drive about an hour, get the gas, drive back home, watch television.... Death by boredom.

When I got my digital camera, the dealer advised I get LR but that I should take lessons from someone he knew because the program was too complicated to learn on my own. I think it was LR 2 or 3. I contacted the fellow several times but couldn't work out a schedule. So I dove in on my own with a book. I have been a quick learner all my life but found this technology to be from another universe. And I am impatient; I will thrash around in the program, trying for effects, almost get what I want, then forget how I got it and can't repeat it. I never make notes. I learn best from either one-on-one instruction where I can ask questions, or from a book where I can go back over and over. I have modest success with video tutorials.

I have been concentrating on b&w pictures for about a year or so now; I am becoming impatient with "pretty" photos. I like my photo of the rain on the ferry window I posted in the Ferry Project, and want to do more of that type, so I am puzzling how I can break away from my impulse to trip the shutter when I see a lovely landscape and pause to concentrate on abstract forms, lines and shapes. I tried that this morning but got seduced by beautiful scenery at the Herring Pond.

Let's see what today, and tomorrow, bring.

Thanks again. Matt
Matt Quinn

"One should really use the camera as though tomorrow you'd be stricken blind." Dorothea Lange

User avatar
Charles Haacker
Mentoris Secundus
Mentoris Secundus
Posts: 1077
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:20 pm
Reputation: 96
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

)

Postby Charles Haacker » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:32 pm

Dang! It's too bad we are so far apart geographically or I'd offer to come over and see if I could help. I know, though, that everyone learns differently, different pace, different methods, there really is no one-size-fits-all, and indeed getting tossed into the deep end in Lightroom has to be a shock to the system. For those of us who came to digital with a background in film, and especially if we had darkroom skills, post processing with any program was just a relatively short step from what we were already used to. We already knew the terms, dodging (making something lighter), burning (making something darker), so on so forth. We already understood the importance of setting a white point and a black point. We knew what a good exposure looked like, and we also knew what a bad one looked like. One of the things I now value most is the histogram for what it tells me about the overall exposure, placement of black and white points, contrast range, but I was already familiar with things like sensitometry, densitometers, and plotting Hurter-Driffield curves, pretty much all of which is now encapsulated in a histogram (and how cool is that?!).

But while I already had all that stuff in my head (yay for me) I also realize that it's not necessary to have that now-arcane knowledge. Digital photography is an absolute paradigm shift and the skill sets no longer require rubber aprons in total darkness. I'm sure you've already thought of it, but just in case you haven't you might look into whether there is a junior college nearby. Sometimes they offer courses in photography and/or post processing, usually with an emphasis on Photoshop since it is the long-time Gold Standard. I've also seen courses offered in Lightroom. Also, camera clubs sometimes offer courses. I've looked into some of this myself since I also prefer a classroom setting where I can ask questions as they occur, but I've also been dealing lately with grief so I haven't wanted to do anything. Still, photography is about the only thing left that motivates me so indeed, "tomorra izza 'nother day."

Incidentally, I see nothing wrong with being seduced by pretty pitchers. Digital is practically free so why not? But I also see articles suggesting that one should break the mold and establish discipline by trying to set a definite goal and parameters, such as, say, photographing only things that are yellow (or whatever). :)
Friends call me Chuck. :photo: This link takes you to my Flickr albums. Please click on any album to scroll through it.
(I prefer to present pictures in albums because I can put them in specific order.)

All the great photographers use cameras! No, really. :|

User avatar
Matt Quinn
Mentoris Quartus
Mentoris Quartus
Posts: 843
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:12 pm
Reputation: 23
Location: MD in winter: Cape Cod in summer
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Matt Quinn » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:35 am

Chuck,
Dang! It's too bad we are so far apart geographically or I'd offer to come over and see if I could help.

That would be great. So, I need to find another 'Chuck' nearby. We head back to MD next Thursday and I plan to look into the local community college to see what they have. Also, MICA (Maryland Institute, College of Art) in Baltimore may have something, although nothing shows on their website. I'll just go visit.

Black point and white point, I need to Google that. I think I may already set those but didn't know that name. In LR, Develop module, I drag the dark slider to the left till the triangle appears then move it back, then drag the white slider to the right till the triangle appears, then nudge it back. In a landscape photo, I increase clarity and when that increases the blacks, I back off the black slider till the triangle disappears. I play with the sliders -- exposure, contrast and the others -- till I get the histogram where I want it, then go into SEP. I keep the pointer on the 0 in the tone chart and avoid any photos that have the yellow bugs indicating loss of detail. Then move to the 10 for the lights and try to avoid blowouts. I tend to prefer the dark presets in SEP.

I got seduced again today; took many "pretty pictures" but tried, at the end of the day, to experiment. If any looks decent, I will post and let you know.

In your grief, please know that your pM family and friends care about you. I appreciate deeply your attention to my efforts and your encouragement to learn. Thank you. Matt
Matt Quinn

"One should really use the camera as though tomorrow you'd be stricken blind." Dorothea Lange

User avatar
St3v3M
Key Founding Member
Key Founding Member
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:02 am
Reputation: 102
Location: 35,000 feet
Social Media Opt-In: Yes
Editing option: Yes, feel free to edit my image
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby St3v3M » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:48 am

Psjunkie wrote:As I'm always straight forward Matt, for me it seems a different perspective, a touch too much rock gone as I've lost most of that looking up feeling that foreground was helping with....yeah I know, never can please him..lol. This was more what I was trying to describe...sorry to be such a pain, I am not very good with words....still absolutely nothing wrong the original, comment was just my thinking out loud.....

I like this one more, but am curious which you like and why. S-
"Take photographs, leave footprints, steal hearts"

User avatar
Psjunkie
Mentoris Sextus
Mentoris Sextus
Posts: 675
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:20 am
Reputation: 33
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: Yes, feel free to edit my image
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Psjunkie » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:25 pm

Mine with a bit more rock and sky...the lower perspective I think is what attracts me Steve.....

User avatar
St3v3M
Key Founding Member
Key Founding Member
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:02 am
Reputation: 102
Location: 35,000 feet
Social Media Opt-In: Yes
Editing option: Yes, feel free to edit my image
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby St3v3M » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:40 pm

Psjunkie wrote:Mine with a bit more rock and sky...the lower perspective I think is what attracts me Steve.....

I was just watching a video about lower perspectives and am a believer too! Thank you and keep them coming! S-
"Take photographs, leave footprints, steal hearts"

User avatar
Charles Haacker
Mentoris Secundus
Mentoris Secundus
Posts: 1077
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:20 pm
Reputation: 96
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Social Media Opt-In: No
Editing option: No, please do not edit my images
Contact:

Re: An Homage to Chuck's Torii

Postby Charles Haacker » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:30 pm

Matt Quinn wrote:[...] Black point and white point, I need to Google that. I think I may already set those but didn't know that name. In LR, Develop module, I drag the dark slider to the left till the triangle appears then move it back, then drag the white slider to the right till the triangle appears, then nudge it back. In a landscape photo, I increase clarity and when that increases the blacks, I back off the black slider till the triangle disappears. I play with the sliders -- exposure, contrast and the others -- till I get the histogram where I want it, then go into SEP. I keep the pointer on the 0 in the tone chart and avoid any photos that have the yellow bugs indicating loss of detail. Then move to the 10 for the lights and try to avoid blowouts. I tend to prefer the dark presets in SEP.

Matt, you are already correctly setting your black and white points with the sliders. I do it a little differently as I keep the red and blue "lights" on and press the ALT or OPTION key down while moving the sliders. When using the white slider the screen goes black. As you work the white slider to the right (brighter) you'll see specks of red start to appear in the black ground. My personal preference is to back off until all the spots go out as I want the white white, but not clipped. When I switch to the black slider I again hold down the ALT or OPTION while dragging the black slider to the left. The screen switches to overall white, and as the slider is pulled left (darker) spots appear, not always blue which indicates clipped blacks, but sometimes pale yellows and other colors. Again, by personal preference I like to back the slider off until there might be just a few dark blue specks. Some workers go further with the blacks to allow for a base of true black but I don't go quite that far usually (depends on the picture). What I am doing is the same as you except that I like to watch the specks on the otherwise blank screens. The rest of the time I have the "lights" on but I only see them if something else I do changes the whole; then a may see a red patch that warns me I've clipped the whites, or a blue patch that warns me I've clipped the blacks. I will usually back the white slider down to eliminate any red, but sometimes I will let the blue stay if it's in a deep shadow. But everybody's got a different approach.

(And thank you for your sympathetic words!)
Friends call me Chuck. :photo: This link takes you to my Flickr albums. Please click on any album to scroll through it.
(I prefer to present pictures in albums because I can put them in specific order.)

All the great photographers use cameras! No, really. :|


Return to “― Scapes Critique”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests