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Image Processingvalue study - blend if

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PietFrancke
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Re: value study - blend if

Post by PietFrancke » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:17 pm

yep - thank God!! I've been such an idiot with this, sorry for the earlier misinformation.

Ok, now to increase comfort zone with this, we can do two things... First, play with both the green layer and dark layer. Perhaps change the sliders on the underlying layer as follows:

Dark layer - currently 0-85 -------- change to 0-120
Mid layer (green)- currently 86-170 --------- change to 121-170
This will change the "border of your Black/Green" to include more black.

Then, play with that a little to see how the border can easily change. The trick though is that the color may need to be adjusted so that it stays in that slot's value range!

Your Window image is excellent for this by the way...
Then next, let's have four value groups instead of three.... 256/4 = 64 so evenly split would be:
layer //// underlying slider //// B of HSB
dark 0-63 -- for your color make B of HSB = 12 (I picked middle of 0-25)
dark-mid 64-127 -- B of HSB = 37 (mid 26-50)
light-mid 128-191 -- B of HSB = 62 (mid 51-75)
light 192-255 -- B of HSB = 87 (mid of 76-100)

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minniev
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Post by minniev » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:13 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:17 pm
yep - thank God!! I've been such an idiot with this, sorry for the earlier misinformation.

Ok, now to increase comfort zone with this, we can do two things... First, play with both the green layer and dark layer. Perhaps change the sliders on the underlying layer as follows:

Dark layer - currently 0-85 -------- change to 0-120
Mid layer (green)- currently 86-170 --------- change to 121-170
This will change the "border of your Black/Green" to include more black.

Then, play with that a little to see how the border can easily change. The trick though is that the color may need to be adjusted so that it stays in that slot's value range!

Your Window image is excellent for this by the way...
Then next, let's have four value groups instead of three.... 256/4 = 64 so evenly split would be:
layer //// underlying slider //// B of HSB
dark 0-63 -- for your color make B of HSB = 12 (I picked middle of 0-25)
dark-mid 64-127 -- B of HSB = 37 (mid 26-50)
light-mid 128-191 -- B of HSB = 62 (mid 51-75)
light 192-255 -- B of HSB = 87 (mid of 76-100)
I am still on the train but I don't know where I'm headed.

Added a new layer (?) for the new value group(?) and adjusted settings on the others.
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Screen Shot 2019-01-26 at 1.11.25 PM.png
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:34 pm

minniev wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:13 pm

I am still on the train but I don't know where I'm headed.

Added a new layer (?) for the new value group(?) and adjusted settings on the others.
I think you got it! you understand how it works, now we can talk about how it might possibly help. You have the ability to use this technique to identify and see the major value groups of an image - so that you can see how it might impact it's composition. And this is a way that you can easily simplify an image. For instance,

1) Now get rid of the colors and use grey scale values bright to dark..
2) do the shift-ctrl-alt-E thing to put everything on a layer by itself for a new top layer.
3) get rid of everything (by hitting the eyeball thing) between the top layer and your original bottom layer
4) Play with the opacity of the top layer..

By doing this you are doing a controlled simplification of your original image. And you also have a "map" of the major tone areas. And those areas could be painted or drawn on to to replace the original image. In my example below I made a complete mess of it, but you can see how I attempted to double hatch the dark layer, and single line (with form following lines) on the mid layer and used a light color to paint on the highlights... A disaster, but at least you know where the different tones are!

And in a worst case, we have figured out how to do something useless in PS!
hand.jpg

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Post by minniev » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:12 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:34 pm
minniev wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:13 pm

I am still on the train but I don't know where I'm headed.

Added a new layer (?) for the new value group(?) and adjusted settings on the others.
I think you got it! you understand how it works, now we can talk about how it might possibly help. You have the ability to use this technique to identify and see the major value groups of an image - so that you can see how it might impact it's composition. And this is a way that you can easily simplify an image. For instance,

1) Now get rid of the colors and use grey scale values bright to dark..
2) do the shift-ctrl-alt-E thing to put everything on a layer by itself for a new top layer.
3) get rid of everything (by hitting the eyeball thing) between the top layer and your original bottom layer
4) Play with the opacity of the top layer..

By doing this you are doing a controlled simplification of your original image. And you also have a "map" of the major tone areas. And those areas could be painted or drawn on to to replace the original image. In my example below I made a complete mess of it, but you can see how I attempted to double hatch the dark layer, and single line (with form following lines) on the mid layer and used a light color to paint on the highlights... A disaster, but at least you know where the different tones are!

And in a worst case, we have figured out how to do something useless in PS!

hand.jpg
It might not be useless for those of us who are desperately trying to learn to draw in our old age. George Bush did it, why not us? Are we not at least as smart?

And Duck has even showed us how it might be used for compositional decisions.
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Screen Shot 2019-01-26 at 3.11.45 PM.png
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by PietFrancke » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:34 pm

I like your image Min.. I like the idea of simplifying the scene and then selectively (using a mask perhaps) bringing detail back in.

I'm going to try to take one of my images and go b/w and turn it into say 6 values... And then bring back the original selectively.

I didn't know that about Bush - He might be smarter, and I think Art is a good place for our final years!

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Post by PietFrancke » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:08 pm

using the technique, I simplified the background but left the bird with tonal detail, and returned some color to the bird... For this image, I don't think the technique helped me, but I was able to "simplify" some of the image in a different way than blurring it.

Practically speaking, using Topaz Impressions Oil Painting filter would have been 10 times easier and would have given better results… but now I am more comfortable with "blend-if" at least.
bird.jpg

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Post by minniev » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:48 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:34 pm
I like your image Min.. I like the idea of simplifying the scene and then selectively (using a mask perhaps) bringing detail back in.

I'm going to try to take one of my images and go b/w and turn it into say 6 values... And then bring back the original selectively.

I didn't know that about Bush - He might be smarter, and I think Art is a good place for our final years!


https://www.artistsnetwork.com/artist-l ... dent-bush/

I'm gonna take the image into my ipad paint program and see what may come of it. You are doing all of your digital stuff on computer with a wacom, right? I'm mainly doing it on the ipad. I have an old wacom, it seems to work ok on the computer but my brain is not yet aligned well enough with it to do much.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:01 am

minniev wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:48 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:34 pm
I like your image Min.. I like the idea of simplifying the scene and then selectively (using a mask perhaps) bringing detail back in.

I'm going to try to take one of my images and go b/w and turn it into say 6 values... And then bring back the original selectively.

I didn't know that about Bush - He might be smarter, and I think Art is a good place for our final years!


https://www.artistsnetwork.com/artist-l ... dent-bush/

I'm gonna take the image into my ipad paint program and see what may come of it. You are doing all of your digital stuff on computer with a wacom, right? I'm mainly doing it on the ipad. I have an old wacom, it seems to work ok on the computer but my brain is not yet aligned well enough with it to do much.
thanks for that link, will have to explore "artist's network". The picture of him painting, he looks Really Into it. He is 100 percent there fully engaged in what he is doing. Probably a tremendous contrast to his being around people all the time.

Yeah, I feel more comfortable with the Wacom, it took a while, but the hand-eye coordination came about, you just aren't looking at the piece of paper, you are looking at the computer screen. (not that my control is any good with a piece of paper anyway!)

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Post by minniev » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:46 am

PietFrancke wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:01 am
minniev wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:48 pm
PietFrancke wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:34 pm
I like your image Min.. I like the idea of simplifying the scene and then selectively (using a mask perhaps) bringing detail back in.

I'm going to try to take one of my images and go b/w and turn it into say 6 values... And then bring back the original selectively.

I didn't know that about Bush - He might be smarter, and I think Art is a good place for our final years!
https://www.artistsnetwork.com/artist-l ... dent-bush/

I'm gonna take the image into my ipad paint program and see what may come of it. You are doing all of your digital stuff on computer with a wacom, right? I'm mainly doing it on the ipad. I have an old wacom, it seems to work ok on the computer but my brain is not yet aligned well enough with it to do much.
thanks for that link, will have to explore "artist's network". The picture of him painting, he looks Really Into it. He is 100 percent there fully engaged in what he is doing. Probably a tremendous contrast to his being around people all the time.

Yeah, I feel more comfortable with the Wacom, it took a while, but the hand-eye coordination came about, you just aren't looking at the piece of paper, you are looking at the computer screen. (not that my control is any good with a piece of paper anyway!)
Loose approximation of tones
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6797D23F-2512-4E5B-99A7-6DF2C163AF65.jpeg
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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PietFrancke
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Post by PietFrancke » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:23 pm

I like it, did you over paint? How'd you get there? I like it a LOT.

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