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Places Showcase"Your Kind Is Not Welcome Here"

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minniev
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Re: "Your Kind Is Not Welcome Here"

Post by minniev » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:29 am

Charles Haacker wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 am
First, Min, beautiful picture beautifully rendered! Then the food for thought.
Glad you liked the picture, Chuck. And I liked your essay. It’s true that the names of most Indian tribes are simply names given them by other tribes, and usually derogatory. They considered themselves “the people” or the “real people”. It seems to be a longstanding characteristic of human groups to choose “their own kind” and exclude the “others” who look or think or worship differently. What is troubling is that there seemed to be a general recognition that there was something dishonorable about this kind of exclusive thinking, but now it appears that it’s become popular again.

Thank you for sharing this!
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Post by Charles Haacker » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:14 am

minniev wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:29 am
Charles Haacker wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 am
First, Min, beautiful picture beautifully rendered! Then the food for thought.
Glad you liked the picture, Chuck. And I liked your essay. It’s true that the names of most Indian tribes are simply names given them by other tribes, and usually derogatory. They considered themselves “the people” or the “real people”. It seems to be a longstanding characteristic of human groups to choose “their own kind” and exclude the “others” who look or think or worship differently. What is troubling is that there seemed to be a general recognition that there was something dishonorable about this kind of exclusive thinking, but now it appears that it’s become popular again.

Thank you for sharing this!
I suspect that kind of exclusionary thinking has always been just beneath the surface, lurking. What's made it recently popular, at least in this country, is a man in office who thunders against "political correctness," who appeals to what I think of as the baser instincts of The Base. I have my prejudices and biases. I am human and I am certain that it's (as I say) baked into our DNA. But I hope I understand that my own baked-in bigotry is irrational. All "PC" is is walking a mile in the other fellow's moccasins. Trying to get an understanding. Recognizing for myself that I absolutely wallow in White Christian* American Male Privilege, which is pure and total accident of birth, like being "royal." One of my triggers is men, males who seem not to "get IT." I like to think I do get IT insofar as a WCAM can. I try. Maybe that's all PC is: trying to get IT, realizing the other human has a viewpoint and it's not mine. Ya think racism isn't so bad? Are you the victim of it? Ya think sexism isn't so bad? Are you the victim of it? "But I'm not racist or sexist! Why're you looking at me?" "Because you think you Get It but you can never Get It without experiencing it so just try to empathize. Y'folla?" (* I have no religion but I was raised Christian.)

Humans are aggressive and opportunistic. If that tribe over there has something that will help us we should go over, bash 'em and take it. The other tribe, adapted to being hyper suspicious, prevents getting bashed to death by being more aggressive than the bashers.

We are still hyper suspicious, plus we live in a world that gets smaller and smaller thanks to an unprecedented degree of connectedness. Due to appalling atrocities all over the world, all of which we know instantly about (or at least us crazy news junkies who should know better do), refugees go flooding out of conflict zones to slightly less conflict zones and in the process cause great fear on the part of the current occupants, especially because not only are these newcomers not "us," they dress differently, smell differently, WORSHIP different OMG EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT EVEN THE RIGHT GOD! And thus they terrify us! Because that fear and loathing of the Other is baked into our DNA over tens of thousands of years of just tryin' t' stay alive. But so is empathy and sympathy. Many, many caring people look beyond their own fear and try to help. Problems arise when the fear-and-loathing crowd starts to moan in greater and greater terror that "these people" are a threat! They threaten our lives and jobs and homes and land and gods! And, in fairness, some of them do. The ones we called "terrorists" because it fits can and do use refugees as stalking horses to go into other lands and do their evil. Some of the fearful are not wrong about that because it's documented; it happens. But statistically it doesn't represent that great a threat --- yet. We can't know what they are up to or how bent they are on, say, replicating 9-11. So yeah, it is reasonable to be prudent, but I don't think it is reasonable or prudent to be so terrified that we, for example, allow fleeing humans to drown in the surf because we fear --- what? (Well, they're only Muslim...brown...whatever... The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil...)

Well, I gotta shut up. My computer is running out of ink. :cheers:
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Post by PietFrancke » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:08 pm

Chuck, you make some very good points. The tribes hate each other, they have been trained to do so. The world grows smaller and the Nations are no longer tribes. I value culture, religion, the freedom to be who you are and who you want to be. I would not want to live in a 7-11 world of sameness. I hope the solution is not to melt the tribes into one glob of sameness.

I think you are right that this is partly a war against those of privilege. A war between the Haves and the HaveNots. Fear of race is used to line up the troops - to divide people who are somewhat naturally divided anyway.

I have been successful in life because I am white, male, smart, work hard, am persistent, and am lucky. In a technological world, those are pretty good characteristics. The argument I am proposing is that we need to make a world where white and male aren't the big cards for success. In fact, we need to make a world where other appropriate characteristics can also be rewarded (not everyone is smart, or lucky, or persistent). Caring is a good example, rarely is a person rewarded for caring. Or honesty, how often is that rewarded? (Caring and honesty are in my opinion two critical characteristics of a good leader).

There are more tribes than there used to be. We used to have the brown tribe, the yellow tribe, the black tribe, etc. But there are new tribes - the oil tribe, the news tribe, the education tribe, the hospital tribe, the blue tribe, you get the idea. There many different forces at work, and they are not always in our interest (though originally the idea Was that they would be in our interest).

The poor need hope. They need tolerance, they need a pathway to success, they need a dream. They need the very things that our country used to stand for!

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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:04 pm

The Mississippi Civil Rights Museum looks wonderful and is and is a needed commentary to the history of our country and those still living in economic and social injustice. To be honest, I'm surprised a museum like this was built in The South, especially at a time when we're tearing down the Confederate past, but I also find beauty in the idea that it was and was done well. This is definitely a must visit!

Isn't it amazing how like congregates with like? It's a survival instinct meant to keep us alive, but you'd think with all our social grace we would have transcended it by now. Your image is the classic white against black, big against small, aggressive against less, but it goes even further. I've seen it in your birds too, the whites dominating the blues and I'm sure it extends from there. You expect the alpha, it's a genetic thing that has helped the species keep the strongest bloodlines, but you would think birds would accept other birds, humans other humans. S-
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:08 pm

LindaShorey wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:53 pm
How fascinating you came upon the sight right after your museum visit. I wonder if you'd have made the connection to human segregation if you hadn't just been to the exhibit? ...
This is a good question and one that needed to be asked. It's like buying a new car and suddenly seeing them on the road, but I wonder too if it is that as artists we live with our eyes open where we see things as they are rather than how the world tells us to see them?

Are we more empathetic therefore artists, or artists therefore empathetic? S-
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:23 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:26 pm
I was kinda scared to look, but I peeked in anyway.

Commentary - I've spent most of my life around dogs. They most certainly establish a pecking order and they are territorial in nature.

In most social situations, there is always the "odd duck left out" (an interesting phrase for sure).

Chess players hang out with other chess players (or no one). The cheerleaders are more likely to hang out with the athletes than with the chess players. All very normal, very natural. It is the kind of thing that takes "goodness" and humanity to overcome (though sometimes animals can surprise us).

What is it that draws out kindness? or meanness? When do we embrace, when do we reject? What makes us bullies? What makes us fair? What makes us fear?
To be fair, most people find it hard to hang out with people who are different from them. Imagine being at a social gathering where everyone has different talents and likes. Most people wouldn't know what to say, wouldn't know how to interact, and wouldn't feel comfortable. I'm sure this is the stem of bigotry and racism, but for the most part we like things similar to us because they make us feel safe.

Sir Francis Bacon said "Nothing is terrible except fear itself" and nothing could be more true. Fear Is The Enemy We Embrace. S-
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:25 pm

uuglypher wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 am
...and considering the top and profoundly shameful news of this day...your image...and message...are all the more apropos.
Good eye...profound message !

Thanks for posting

Dave
So easily we fall. S-
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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:26 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:05 am
... We have become long on greed and short on mercy.
What more is there to say? S-
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Post by Charles Haacker » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:27 pm

PietFrancke wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:08 pm
Chuck, you make some very good points. The tribes hate each other, they have been trained to do so. The world grows smaller and the Nations are no longer tribes. I value culture, religion, the freedom to be who you are and who you want to be. I would not want to live in a 7-11 world of sameness. I hope the solution is not to melt the tribes into one glob of sameness.

I think you are right that this is partly a war against those of privilege. A war between the Haves and the HaveNots. Fear of race is used to line up the troops - to divide people who are somewhat naturally divided anyway.

I have been successful in life because I am white, male, smart, work hard, am persistent, and am lucky. In a technological world, those are pretty good characteristics. The argument I am proposing is that we need to make a world where white and male aren't the big cards for success. In fact, we need to make a world where other appropriate characteristics can also be rewarded (not everyone is smart, or lucky, or persistent). Caring is a good example, rarely is a person rewarded for caring. Or honesty, how often is that rewarded? (Caring and honesty are in my opinion two critical characteristics of a good leader).

There are more tribes than there used to be. We used to have the brown tribe, the yellow tribe, the black tribe, etc. But there are new tribes - the oil tribe, the news tribe, the education tribe, the hospital tribe, the blue tribe, you get the idea. There many different forces at work, and they are not always in our interest (though originally the idea Was that they would be in our interest).

The poor need hope. They need tolerance, they need a pathway to success, they need a dream. They need the very things that our country used to stand for!
Indeed, Piet, the solution (if there is one) does not lie in one great gooey glob of sameness (ick!). It would be awful and would solve absolutely nothing (we would just find something else to drive the hate). We are of course diverse and of course that is a good thing. The trick (if there is one) is to learn to value and celebrate diversity, yet that is where baked-in tribalism continues to cause trouble. A very few years ago David McCullough, Jr. gave a ringing, viral commencement speech that resonated powerfully with me: You Are Not Special! With some 7.5 BILLION of us on the surface and climbing how in heaven's name can any thinking person not recognize that simple truth (duh)? But conversely neither are we viruses. I like to say that each of us is unique as opposed to "special." I think I could make a reasoned argument that we each bring something unique, and uniquely good to the table. The trick for all of us is not to recognize the uniqueness in ourselves, but rather to acknowledge the uniqueness in the other. To look outside self. To do our level best to see the self the other fellow sees when he looks inward. That's where I think empathy begins. Hate and fear are just two sides of the same coin. We hate that which we fear. If we fear The Other it's a natural progression to Hate. It seems simple enough to slide down the slippery slope from there, and humans love it simple.

Dalai Lama: “If you can, help and serve others, but if you can’t at least don’t harm them; then in the end you will feel no regret.”
  • First do no harm.
  • Be kind.
  • Walk a mile...
See? Simple. :)
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(I prefer to present pictures in albums because I can put them in specific order.)

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Post by St3v3M » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:02 pm

Charles Haacker wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:55 am
...
So far as I know (and I ain't a biologist nor a ornithologist) if you cross a pelican with a cormorant you will get a pelicant (or is it a cormoran?). It will be a flightless bird with hairy feathers.
...
What do you get when you cross an elephant with a rhino? Elephino
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