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Photography DiscussionPhotography, Color Perception and Cataract Surgery

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Matt Quinn
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Re: Photography, Color Perception and Cataract Surgery

Post by Matt Quinn » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:44 pm

Minnie, I will have to have cataract surgery in the next 2-3 years, so the results on acuity and color vision are in the future. But I did try contact lenses once and was stunned at the increase in color intensity when I went into the grocery story and wandered the fruit and vegetable aisles. An artist friend told me that eye glasses reduce the quality of color perception by about 18% because of two factors: the glass and the distance between the surface of the glasses and your optic nerve. (I have never seen corroboration for that statement but clearly recall the blaze of colors.) With the contacts on the surface of they eye, there is minimal interference in what reaches the optic nerve. So, with cataracts AND glasses, the light has a lot of stuff to get through, I guess. I'll see (!) in a year or two.

I got rid of the contacts: too much bother. And I look more sober, serious and academic in glasses, I am told. Who's to argue?

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Post by Charles Haacker » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:07 pm

Matt Quinn wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:44 pm
Minnie, I will have to have cataract surgery in the next 2-3 years, so the results on acuity and color vision are in the future. But I did try contact lenses once and was stunned at the increase in color intensity when I went into the grocery story and wandered the fruit and vegetable aisles. An artist friend told me that eye glasses reduce the quality of color perception by about 18% because of two factors: the glass and the distance between the surface of the glasses and your optic nerve. (I have never seen corroboration for that statement but clearly recall the blaze of colors.) With the contacts on the surface of they eye, there is minimal interference in what reaches the optic nerve. So, with cataracts AND glasses, the light has a lot of stuff to get through, I guess. I'll see (!) in a year or two.

I got rid of the contacts: too much bother. And I look more sober, serious and academic in glasses, I am told. Who's to argue?

See ya!

Matt
I'm not sure about the glasses, especially if you opt for the somewhat-spendy-but-worth-it anti-glare coating. I just got it and realize I should always have had it, especially for driving. When Daphne had her cataracts done one after the other she was astonished (even though the doctor told her) that she was seeing like she hadn't seen since her 20's. The new lenses are bell clear plus she had the distance vision versions and needed only reading glasses for the rest of her life. Now, that said I understand that Minnie has a problem with one of her lenses. That didn't happen to Daphne and didn't happen to me (I've only had one done and they won't do the other until that eye reaches a certain tipping point). But if there are no glitches with the surgeries and you get glasses with the anti-glare you should see as well or better than you ever did.

Sober, serious, and academic, huh. (Y)
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Post by Matt Quinn » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:40 pm

And, now, portly. Matt
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Post by St3v3M » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:43 am

minniev wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:38 am
Over the past two weeks I've had cataract surgery on both eyes. The one yesterday was a success, we think, but the first one is problematic in terms of acuity. Both, however, have had huge changes in color and light perception, much more pronounced now that both eyes have been worked on. Acuity aside for now, colors are brighter, more distinct, are less yellow. What that means for my photography is yet to be determined (I'm still just trying to figure out how to walk down the hall without hitting a wall). But for a test, I took a photo I made and edited a few days after my first surgery, and re-edited it from scratch to see how it might be different. This photo was taken looking into a fairly yellowish evening light so it may not be fair, but I found it interesting that I "see" it differently just a week later. If you've had cataract surgery, I'd be interested in hearing how it affected your photography.

The first is with one eye fixed. The second is with both eyes fixed.
I have software on my computer that changes the color of the screen at sunset to reduce the blue light sort of making everything a little yellow. I'm so used to the transition by now I sometimes forget about it and continue to process my images without disabling it. The images tend to be a little yellow and it sort of startles me when I see them in the morning. Your first reminds of that, the sort of yellow look while the second seems a little flat, not bad, but not as vibrant. Remind us and we'll help you find a happy middle! S-

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Post by minniev » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:04 pm

St3v3M wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:43 am

I have software on my computer that changes the color of the screen at sunset to reduce the blue light sort of making everything a little yellow. I'm so used to the transition by now I sometimes forget about it and continue to process my images without disabling it. The images tend to be a little yellow and it sort of startles me when I see them in the morning. Your first reminds of that, the sort of yellow look while the second seems a little flat, not bad, but not as vibrant. Remind us and we'll help you find a happy middle! S-

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I may need lots more feedback while I get used to my new robotic eyes. Now that the second eye is done, and my eyes are starting to work together a little better, I'm having to relearn my own vision. I've also relied on in-camera helps more: touchscreeen shooting, manual focus aids like focus peaking and blinkies, full shooting parameters grouped as presets and saved into slots on the mode dial, etc. The morning light in my home office is a little tough still, but my eyes are still kinda oversensitive so that may improve. Getting used to the brightness of colors is a real treat. It's like I had been wearing foggy yellow lenses for a while and now they're gone.
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Post by pop511 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:49 am

I have been wearing glasses since I was 16 and it came as a shock to the headmaster as I had to stand on the podium with him every morning before assembly.
About 2012 I had to have both eye lenses replaced. The operations were one week apart. I was originally asked if I wanted to stay short sighted or opt for long. But before I had the OP I was given the chance to try a new type of lens. These allow me to read and also focus long distance clearly.
After the first OP, I tested my eyes with a macbeth color chart on the comp screen. Above comments are correct White was now white in the "new" eye. The "old " eye was a grayish/yellow/cream.
What I did do was test both eyes against the macbeth color chart. I adjusted the hew saturation of yellow from my old eye to closely match the new eye.
With those adjustments I copied them to another colour. Colours were wrong. I then went to either green or blue and started again. Same result. All colours were shifted individually.
So I wrote a report and gave it to the surgeon who couldn't care less
Even now after so many years, it comes as full wonderment to view trees in the distance and pick out individual leaves with clarity.
Which leaves me with a question for you all. And please take this with a pinch of salt...As the saying goes.
You are in a crowded area
You know you can see colours perfectly. Can others see the same colour? And can they say the same question about you?
It is a question I have asked myself many times.
Have fun:
ed
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Post by St3v3M » Thu May 31, 2018 1:46 pm

pop511 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:49 am
...
Which leaves me with a question for you all. And please take this with a pinch of salt...As the saying goes.
You are in a crowded area
You know you can see colours perfectly. Can others see the same colour? And can they say the same question about you?
It is a question I have asked myself many times.
Have fun:
ed
I remember hearing something in a biology class that we all see colors differently than everyone else, smell different, hear different, and the rest. The idea was that our biology changes the way we sense the world, add things like color blindness, tinnitus, and the rest and I'm sure it's true. I've always thought of this as subtle but wonder now how much differently I see compared to 'you?' S-
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Post by minniev » Thu May 31, 2018 2:00 pm

pop511 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:49 am
I have been wearing glasses since I was 16 and it came as a shock to the headmaster as I had to stand on the podium with him every morning before assembly.
About 2012 I had to have both eye lenses replaced. The operations were one week apart. I was originally asked if I wanted to stay short sighted or opt for long. But before I had the OP I was given the chance to try a new type of lens. These allow me to read and also focus long distance clearly.
After the first OP, I tested my eyes with a macbeth color chart on the comp screen. Above comments are correct White was now white in the "new" eye. The "old " eye was a grayish/yellow/cream.
What I did do was test both eyes against the macbeth color chart. I adjusted the hew saturation of yellow from my old eye to closely match the new eye.
With those adjustments I copied them to another colour. Colours were wrong. I then went to either green or blue and started again. Same result. All colours were shifted individually.
So I wrote a report and gave it to the surgeon who couldn't care less
Even now after so many years, it comes as full wonderment to view trees in the distance and pick out individual leaves with clarity.
Which leaves me with a question for you all. And please take this with a pinch of salt...As the saying goes.
You are in a crowded area
You know you can see colours perfectly. Can others see the same colour? And can they say the same question about you?
It is a question I have asked myself many times.
Have fun:
ed
I suspect some of our natural color variations, as well as those caused by cataracts and other abnormalities, are at least part of what causes so much confusion about color rendering in photography, both on-screen and in print.

I had a lot of trouble getting proper prints from my bird exhibit photos, and most of the trouble involved the hue and intensity of yellows. In retrospect, I wonder if some of it was hampered by the cataracts, which were by then severe enough to need removal a few months later.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Post by Charles Haacker » Thu May 31, 2018 6:29 pm

pop511 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 11:49 am
...
Which leaves me with a question for you all. And please take this with a pinch of salt...As the saying goes.
You are in a crowded area
You know you can see colours perfectly. Can others see the same colour? And can they say the same question about you?
It is a question I have asked myself many times.
Have fun:
ed
St3v3M wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 1:46 pm
I remember hearing something in a biology class that we all see colors differently than everyone else, smell different, hear different, and the rest. The idea was that our biology changes the way we sense the world, add things like color blindness, tinnitus, and the rest and I'm sure it's true. I've always thought of this as subtle but wonder now how much differently I see compared to 'you?' S-
I remember hearing the same, plus I have also heard that our own individual color perception may change slightly from day to day, even if everything else is just fine. One thing I am not clear on is how they test that. I verify my two monitors with my Spyder 5 Pro at minimum every 6 weeks. The Spyder 5 always confirms that all is well and the colors and brightness sure look fine to me, except if I cover my right eye; then I see the yellow cast in my left, very much the faint. straw color of a skylight filter (remember those?). About 20 years ago I worked for a time in a lab and got gigged occasionally for color being off. My boss would look at it and say it was off. Somebody else would come in and say it was fine. A third opinion would likely be that it was off but too cyan rather than too magenta. 8~ (N)
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(I prefer to present pictures in albums because I can put them in specific order.)

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Post by St3v3M » Thu May 31, 2018 6:39 pm

Charles Haacker wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 6:29 pm
I remember hearing the same, plus I have also heard that our own individual color perception may change slightly from day to day, even if everything else is just fine. One thing I am not clear on is how they test that. I verify my two monitors with my Spyder 5 Pro at minimum every 6 weeks. The Spyder 5 always confirms that all is well and the colors and brightness sure look fine to me, except if I cover my right eye; then I see the yellow cast in my left, very much the faint. straw color of a skylight filter (remember those?). About 20 years ago I worked for a time in a lab and got gigged occasionally for color being off. My boss would look at it and say it was off. Somebody else would come in and say it was fine. A third opinion would likely be that it was off but too cyan rather than too magenta. 8~ (N)
I have some software on my computer that reduces the 'blue light' at sunset and restores it at sunrise, it sort makes the screen look yellow, but I've become so used to it there are times I have to remind myself it's on when I'm post-processing or watching a movie. I even processed an image once late at night and woke up the next morning to find something horribly wrong. I couldn't figure out what I had done to it until I remembered the yellow cast and had inadvertently added more. It's the same thing sometimes when I'm hiking and wear polarized sunglasses thinking wow this looks really pretty then I take them off and it's flat and bland.

Color is an interesting thing and I imagine we all see it a little differently, it when it looks garish though that I start to wonder and read the message to see if that's the way the intended it to be. I think it's interesting you seem to be a hue off and wonder if you purposely try to correct it overcompensating for the change or leave it be. I haven't seen anything that concerns me but I'm always curious.

And I wonder if those color blindness tests help? I'll post one and see what everyone says. S-

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