General Photography DiscussionDo you do this?

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pop511
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Do you do this?

Postby pop511 » Tue May 16, 2017 9:34 am

In my prep for B&W I adjust for white and black levels in bridge, to get full spectrum if needed.
What I do then is a tip I found out that I now use all the time and that is to fully desaturate the picture.
It opens up the gray areas and creates mini steps from one gray level to the next.
What is your workflow?
ed
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Re: Do you do this?

Postby Ernst-Ulrich Schafer » Tue May 16, 2017 1:57 pm

Pretty much use the Nik Softwear to convert to BW. Sometimes I run a couple of their filters or the same filter over the same image.
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Re: Do you do this?

Postby minniev » Tue May 16, 2017 7:45 pm

[quote="pop511"]In my prep for B&W I adjust for white and black levels in bridge, to get full spectrum if needed.
What I do then is a tip I found out that I now use all the time and that is to fully desaturate the picture.
It opens up the gray areas and creates mini steps from one gray level to the next.
What is your workflow?
ed[/quote
I have multiple routes depending on what I'm trying to do. I am a confessed software junkie so there is no single path. Lightroom/ACR do a better job of conversion that they have any right to, so for some images I convert right there in the midst of whatever else I'm doing with editing. More often, I use NIK (either silver efex or analog efex) or Tonality, usually within Photoshop so I have better access to masking and layers and the other goodies, and so I can use textures, my other addiction. Both Silver Efex and Tonality have good histogram thingies that help visualize zones which I sometimes find useful.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Re: Do you do this?

Postby pop511 » Tue May 16, 2017 9:37 pm

Minniev:
Oh Yeah I use NIK silver efex.
I was thinking of B&W preparation before any processing.
Still prefer my way. Taking contrast out,subdues the colors, the picture looks terrible, but I still have full spectrum and when converted reduces that harsh digital transition from zone to zone.
Texture layers;What a lot of fun. Everything from water colors to rusty plates.
Thx Ernst:
I know you are a great fan of NIK silver and wet rocks pre-set

Maybe we should expand this topic to " what is your workflow "
ed
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Re: Do you do this?

Postby minniev » Tue May 16, 2017 10:51 pm

pop511 wrote:Minniev:
Oh Yeah I use NIK silver efex.
I was thinking of B&W preparation before any processing.
Still prefer my way. Taking contrast out,subdues the colors, the picture looks terrible, but I still have full spectrum and when converted reduces that harsh digital transition from zone to zone.
Texture layers;What a lot of fun. Everything from water colors to rusty plates.
Thx Ernst:
I know you are a great fan of NIK silver and wet rocks pre-set

Maybe we should expand this topic to " what is your workflow "
ed


Would seem fun to expand topic.

I like the wet rocks preset in silver efex too.

I have sometimes converted in LR before going into one of the other programs but have not tried just plain desaturation. Always willing to give something new a try! I'm usually trying to get the colors to give me the tonalities I want by making colors more pronounced or changing them to impact tonalities, rather than flatten them, like shifting WB to very cool in ACR or LR to get the blues more pronounced in order to get a conversion effect I want. Lots of ways to skin the same cat!

Glad to see another texture fan about. I use them to help with blending, to spice up composites, to add grunge and depth, to add or change color, to add lighting, and a bunch of other stuff. I doubt I've even scratched the surface of all they can do.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Re: Do you do this?

Postby pop511 » Wed May 17, 2017 8:04 am

Thx; Minniev
I sometimes...No I'll replace that...I often get annoyed with myself in forums by sounding like "a know it all"
So to start off..Let's pretend we are sitting next to each other with a glass of wine/coffee and only talking....
B&W..no one is right or wrong...only different tastes and techniques.
At college we had to process B&W film in the darkroom. It was frightening, if you make a mistake, you can't go back unless it was to restart from the beginning, and you can't do that in exams. I learned to closely examine black & white areas.
Both extremes have no detail. The idea was to develop with as much detail as you can. This is where we may diverge.
" I'm usually trying to get the colors to give me the tonalities I want by making colors more pronounced"
Yes I can see that, but increasing tones, you may also reduce tonal steps.
And isn't it great with software we can bring back details. Not like my old days, shooting concerts with 2 massive rolls of film for a total of 72 pics... :lol:
Although the Ike & Tina Turner show was different.

Attached picture:
-100% reduction in contrast. I savagely reduced whites and moved the blacks up so I have detail.
Nothing done in this pic. B&W in NIK; Full dynamic preset.
Not enough impact..No problem..I can now use tone curve.

In NIK I'll either start with Normal or full dynamic
I think of B&W as shades of gray
I'm sure I have missed stuff out. Over to someone else to argue now.. :goon:
Attachments
Girls_FoyerB&W.jpg
Girls_FoyerB&W.jpg (281.5 KiB) Viewed 101 times
ed davis

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Re: Do you do this?

Postby minniev » Wed May 17, 2017 8:51 pm

pop511 wrote:Thx; Minniev
I sometimes...No I'll replace that...I often get annoyed with myself in forums by sounding like "a know it all"
So to start off..Let's pretend we are sitting next to each other with a glass of wine/coffee and only talking....
B&W..no one is right or wrong...only different tastes and techniques.
At college we had to process B&W film in the darkroom. It was frightening, if you make a mistake, you can't go back unless it was to restart from the beginning, and you can't do that in exams. I learned to closely examine black & white areas.
Both extremes have no detail. The idea was to develop with as much detail as you can. This is where we may diverge.
" I'm usually trying to get the colors to give me the tonalities I want by making colors more pronounced"
Yes I can see that, but increasing tones, you may also reduce tonal steps.
And isn't it great with software we can bring back details. Not like my old days, shooting concerts with 2 massive rolls of film for a total of 72 pics... :lol:
Although the Ike & Tina Turner show was different.

Attached picture:
-100% reduction in contrast. I savagely reduced whites and moved the blacks up so I have detail.
Nothing done in this pic. B&W in NIK; Full dynamic preset.
Not enough impact..No problem..I can now use tone curve.

In NIK I'll either start with Normal or full dynamic
I think of B&W as shades of gray
I'm sure I have missed stuff out. Over to someone else to argue now.. :goon:


That's just the kind of discussion I enjoy - sharing ideas and methods and opinions. I tried what I think you're describing and was able to get to pretty much where I wanted to go. Of course I'd have to work a little more diligently to get the real benefit of it, I just gave it a quick run to see what happened. But full dynamic was the only silver efex preset that seemed to work that way. I'll trying Tonality too. It has more starter presets with more adjustments to alter them. The only thing I don't like as well as in silver efex is the toning. I'm sure there's a bunch of ways to do this and I appreciate you teaching me a new one. Hoping others will join in.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones

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Re: Do you do this?

Postby St3v3M » Fri May 19, 2017 3:00 pm

pop511 wrote:... Maybe we should expand this topic to " what is your workflow "

The more learning discussions the better! S-
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Re: Do you do this?

Postby pop511 » Sat May 20, 2017 2:22 am

Minniev;
Here we go!!!
How to do the same thing a million and one different ways... :D :D
All comes back to each individual's work flow.
Lest stay with NIK silver for No1:
You've done your B&W layer and it is now in P/S
Take it back again into NIK
Open "finishing adjustments " "Toning" panel
Let's take an agressive color shall we. Pick number 12 or 24
Take it back to P/S
Change blending mode and or opacity to taste.

No2: In P/S
Open blank layer above B&W picture
Choose your color and fill layer with color
Change blending mode and or opacity to taste. Suggest start off with Multiply/overlay/linear light
If original color layer has a color that you want to use. Use color picker and use that.
ed
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Re: Do you do this?

Postby minniev » Sat May 20, 2017 3:35 am

pop511 wrote:Minniev;
Here we go!!!
How to do the same thing a million and one different ways... :D :D
All comes back to each individual's work flow.
Lest stay with NIK silver for No1:
You've done your B&W layer and it is now in P/S
Take it back again into NIK
Open "finishing adjustments " "Toning" panel
Let's take an agressive color shall we. Pick number 12 or 24
Take it back to P/S
Change blending mode and or opacity to taste.

No2: In P/S
Open blank layer above B&W picture
Choose your color and fill layer with color
Change blending mode and or opacity to taste. Suggest start off with Multiply/overlay/linear light
If original color layer has a color that you want to use. Use color picker and use that.
ed

Thank you! I will give these a try, and report my troubles back to you, since I'm sure I'll run into something I can't quite figure. I am far from expert in PS, and learn something every time I work on an image.
"God gave me photography so that I could pray with my eyes" - Dewitt Jones


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